Who counters ashe

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67chrome

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
I herd the new champs are kinda broken. Ashe is pretty old, she mustve been countered and overshadowed eh? Who counters her who replaces her.
New champions aren't broken, they just tend to get complained about extensively as their specific play style and counters aren't recognized by summoners playing against them, generally giving them an edge. It's hard to pin down exactly what their stats should be without some testing as well, so they usually get tweaked a bit when the next patch comes around. The reason new champions are generally considered better than older champions comes more from their kits being more cohesive, innovative, and synergistic of the champion's roll, leaving champions with clunkier kits to feel...clunkier. A solid number of old champions like Ashe have pretty cohesive kits though.

Basically the bread-and-butter of any ranged AD carry is their auto-attack alone, so you can't really go wrong with many of them. In fact, the ADC people tend to think the most underpowered have the shortest attack range of the familiy (Largely Dravin and Sivir fall in this crowd). Inversely champions with an otherwise lackluster kit can still do reliably well with a sufficient attack range (Caitlyn). Fortunatly for Ashe her attack range is on the higher end. While Ashe has been out since LoL was released she's found a spot on a lot of championship teams, winning ones at that, so she's not really outdated. I don't know why she's listed as Recommended though, the skill you need to reliably land her ult, the competency with last-hitting creeps and propensity to check the map with Hawkshot and the ability to kite enemies at all effectively with her frost arrows as well as moderating her mana use all require a decent level of skill to pull off well and make her a better pick than other carries. She has a high skill cap but it doesn't feel like she's all that easy to just pick up and do well with. Not like Garen anyways, were the difficulty setting on him isn't lying.

The big difference from Ashe and most carries is her skills add a lot of support and utility to her team (slows and stuns), while most carries tend to focus on skills that more exclusively deal damage. In that regard basically all other carries are better at dealing damage, but as utility effects like stuns and slows don't rely on AD or AP bonuses to stay relevant Ashe can still easily contribute to her team when sub-par damage abilities from many other carries won't. An across-the-map arrow that snipes, stuns, or initiates a winning fight can also be incredibly game changing, allowing Ashe's team to easily win even when playing against enemy carries with overall more dependable damage. Her stun sort of multiplys in utility the longer the game goes on as well, as everyone will be able to dish out more and more damage to anything not specifically picking up survivability items in the time-frame the stun is active.

As far as in-game counters it's basically everything listed as a "Fighter" or "Assassin" as they are pretty much guaranteed to win 1 vs. 1 trade offs and their roll in a team-fight is to shut down and push out the carry. Considering Dominion and Twisted Treelines both favor these classes she struggles in both, though due to the game-changing aspect of Hawk-Shot's scouting capabilities and the massive impact brush has in Treelines she fares a lot better in Treelines than just about any other ranged carry. If you take her into Dominion you pretty much need to be baby-sat by something incredibly durable as just about every enemy champ you'll run into is pretty solid at tower diving, leaving Ashe little place to hide and little means to keep enemies at a distance. Ezreal is considerably better in Dominion than Ashe, if you have to play a ranged ADC in there he's the go-to champ.

If you want to get specific with counter-picks Olaf was specifically designed to counter her, Jax was designed largely to counter all ADC champions as well. For items pretty much anything that increases Armor helps you survive against her, the big 3 that have some tasty utility are Thornmail, Randuin's Omen, and Frozen Heart, though anything that increases armor at all helps counter her.


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Thubgar

Senior Member

08-23-2012

ashe remains a tournament pick for a reason.

she just trades damage for utility and CC.


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ProfDrDeath

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavinh the fourt View Post
she's beaten by every range carry aside from tristana in terms of early damage.
Sorry to object you here, but Tristana and no early damage? You've never been bursted down by an early Tristana, then.

As a Tristana player myself, let me tell you that she has quite a ton of damage from level 1-6, where the base damage of her abilities is quite high. At level six, she can:
- Jump on you for 115 damage
- Explosive Shot you for 170 damage + reduced healing
- Hit you with 2 autos for roughly 160 damage
- Buster Shot you for another 300 damage.

In total, that is 745 damage before mitigations. Enough to kill you from roughly 50% life. Oh, and you maybe can add the Ignite for another 170 damage.


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Control Music

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thubgar View Post
ashe remains a tournament pick for a reason.

she just trades damage for utility and CC.
This is exactly correct. Ashe is usually chosen when the other 4 team champions don't have as much CC as the team would prefer.


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Mcpunknstein

Member

08-23-2012

yeaaaah... she has good utility late game and can kite, but as for AD's that counter her/ do well in lane. You can take a hyper carry in most of her lanes because she has a pretty weak laning phase and most aggressive laners roll her(Ez/Corki/Graves) if she plays aggressive.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusex View Post
Graves and ez because of their gap closers, she can't kite you.
Then they also have the burst to kill ashe with.
did you know ashe doesn't have to kite you? true story xD


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavinh the fourt View Post
she's beaten by every range carry aside from tristana in terms of early damage.
I herd darius beats alot of ppl in terms of damage all game long


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcpunknstein View Post
counter her/ do well in lane.
these are equivilent?


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Mcpunknstein

Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
these are equivilent?
No...

I suggested both carries that counter her and carries that do well in lane. Doing well in lane doesn't mean you counter someone.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

08-23-2012

seems like all her counters are actually anti-carries that counter all carries lol


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