Malzahar Discussion

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Xtchizobr

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Senior Member

09-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by FABIOForever View Post
Why does everyone unconditionally recommend void staff?

It's only useful if the entire enemy team is packing 100+ magic resist. Otherwise it's a terrible value and you're much better off packing sorcerer shoes, guise, or abyssal scepter.
typically, when people buy MR, it's only one or two people, not the entire team.

also, typically when people buy MR, they just get a Bveil and leave it at that. the major effect of the the Bveil isn't the MR, it's the bubble -- and the Void Staff doesn't help with that.

i agree with you. Void Staff is a terrible item 90% of the time. it's even worse considering its order in the MPen calculation.


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Boldizar

Senior Member

09-15-2010

It's been repeated ad nauseam, but other mages just do more than Malzahar. Every mage can do damage, so that's nothing special. Unfortunately, that's about all Malzahar can do.

Annie, Ryze, and Fiddlesticks all have better single burst, AoE burst, CC, or survivability. He's probably most similar to Karthus, but Karthus still has better pushing and range, plus more reliable utility.

The real problem is Malzahar is too homogenous. All of his abilities do damage in some not-quite-direct way, with overall minor utility. Malefic Visions is especially useless- weak for both teamfights and pushing, and only decent in laning. Replace that with some reliable CC or burst, and he'd be much more useful.


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

09-15-2010

malzahar has just as much damage as any other mage but its focused into 1 target with minor AOE damage.generally all he does is sits way at the back of a fight and waits for his target to commit, thn he ghost runs up and obliterates them with his combo after most of the CC has been used.

he has massive short comings in that he cant keep people off him due to his lack of CC, his only CC is his primary damage dealer and essentially stuns you at the same time. hes viable currently due to the tanky meta game as hes quite good at riping chunka out of tanks, but when the meta game changed i dont know if he will still be viable.


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Eat dat chammich

Senior Member

09-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boldizar View Post
It's been repeated ad nauseam, but other mages just do more than Malzahar. Every mage can do damage, so that's nothing special. Unfortunately, that's about all Malzahar can do.

Annie, Ryze, and Fiddlesticks all have better single burst, AoE burst, CC, or survivability. He's probably most similar to Karthus, but Karthus still has better pushing and range, plus more reliable utility.

The real problem is Malzahar is too homogenous. All of his abilities do damage in some not-quite-direct way, with overall minor utility. Malefic Visions is especially useless- weak for both teamfights and pushing, and only decent in laning. Replace that with some reliable CC or burst, and he'd be much more useful.
I don't know how you can call a 3 second AOE Silence a "minor utility". You don't call Feral Scream a "minor utility" do you?

Malefic Visions can do incredible damage in teamfights and has scored me many kills with randoms jumps to targets that would have otherwise got away with a couple hundred health.

Malz's single target elimination potential is only rivaled by Viegar imo...and can be done from a relatively safe distance. He is also the best mage pusher in the game in my opinion. He obliterates creeps at a very marginal mana cost and spawns upwards of two voidlings to smack towers. Voidlings are disgusting tower killers.


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Gyoro

Senior Member

09-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtchizobr View Post
quite the opposite.

in fact, Malzahar is one of the most flexible squishy AP champs around. he has exceptional ganking ability through his ult and Void Zone which allow him to deal massive damage to his target. Void Zone also functions marvelously in AoE teamfights (Amumu + Nunu + Galio style), and Call of the Void too. he can farm and lane spectacularly with Visions and voidlings, and his AP ratios are just fine, so he scales into late game.

no champion is a god on his own, so of course Malz benefits by being near a teammate with CC and whatnot.

he doesn't really depend on his ult to make kills any more than other champions do. 1v1, of course he needs his ult to be a match for other champions -- just as they need their ult to be a match against him.
I must say "quite the opposite"

His "combo" E > W + R will kill any carry, and at least drops a tank close to 1/4 where an Ignite and DFG can finish off a tank as well.


But then what? Malz has reasonably high CD's you might be able to oss out another E and Q but you're W is still on CD and thats is 1 of your main Team Fight skills.

If they stay in it they are stupid unless snared by amumu/galio and to a lesser extent Morg (echo'd Ult stuns them in place works well in that case) or mass slowed from Nunu.

Usually it will make them break up which is a good thing, and depending if you used E on your main target that you took down with your Ult hopefully on his death it would have bounced to another enemy where you can place a malefic vision on yet another enemy to have 2 ticking around, I've actually had 3 out before it was pretty insane.

Anyways after your standard combo for a kill, then maybe an Q and an E you are useless for the time being since you have no Dmg output.

If the enemy team has half a brain they will know the extent to what Malz can do and will try to focus you down, this is where RoA+Rylai's comes in handy,

3,000hp at lvl 18

since Malz has amazing AP ratios it's not needed to go super heavy into AP you can leave 1 possibly 2 AP items out and get survivability (such as an RoA + Banshee's)

Nothing sucks more than being stunned or silence channeling your Ult...there goes your carry kill and who knows possibly lose the team fight because of it.

I start off with

Mana crystal + 2 hp pots, if you know how to farm your MV properly mana isn't an issue
Boots1
Catalyst ->RoA
Finish Boots
Giant's Belt ->Rylai's
Zhonya's
situational
situational

If the game has a longer than usual laning phase (up to 18-20min) don't finish the Cata into an RoA its heal on level will keep you in the lane faster and making it at 20min is more than enough time (15min) to max out RoA

At this point you are guaranteed a kill so buy a Zhonya's, if not then you're doing something wrong, by 32min you should be lvl 18 with 3,000hp and more than enough mana to either

a) win the team fight with 30-35% mp left
b) die trying

You would have either won by now or they will surrender if you're team is doing good.

The extra mana from AA and the added AP from its passive and the item itself is not really needed due to your high AP ratios to begin with.

If they turtle and the match stretches out to 45-50min your next items will be for survivability/Support.

Banshee's
Frozen Heart / Randuins
Soulshroud


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Ulfhednar

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Senior Member

09-16-2010

id personally skip the RoA, and just build that catalyst into a banshee veil
but i normally go Deathfire Grasp, Rylai's Crystal Sceptre as my core damage items. i build boots and banshee every game as well, sometimes before dfg is even finished depending on enemy team composition.
DFG is without a doubt in my mind the single best item to have on a malzahar. cooldown reduction, ap, mana regen, and an active that makes his ult truly terrifying
Rylais makes it that much easier to stack your abilities on a team or single target. land your malefic visions and they are slowed, making landing your CotV and aoe much easier and more effective. it also makes it easier to keep people in your aoe, so more often then not you can ult someone with your aoe running beneath em and malefic visions going. add your dfg active and ignite to your rotation and watch anyone drop in one burst.


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Sykomyke

Senior Member

09-16-2010

Malzahar is also great at area denial. Null zone is absolutely great for preventing chasers, especially if you have Rylais. And having an aoe silence is only surpassed in usefulness by feral scream is great. But hey, to all the nay-sayers, continue to underestimate Malzahar. I thoroughly enjoy stomping people with him...


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Kratos6661

Junior Member

09-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by FABIOForever View Post
Why does everyone unconditionally recommend void staff?

It's only useful if the entire enemy team is packing 100+ magic resist. Otherwise it's a terrible value and you're much better off packing sorcerer shoes, guise, or abyssal scepter.
this is good no matter what. if used with the magic penetration boots, you leave them with basically 0 resistance. even if they try to get resistance, you get more penetration. along with the AP, its a good item for him


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Kratos6661

Junior Member

09-21-2010

after i get the void staff, i instantly can tell a huge difference in damage and strength


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

09-22-2010

when it comes to pen its basicallly all flat or all %, mixing them is sub par results. with such limited item slots its just easier to go void satff given malz is designed to kill a tank and most carries grab a banshee's. you have 49% pen if you combine void staff and the mastery so halving their MR is alot cheaper than trying to match it in flat pen. also free's up boots for more speed or mercs.


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