AP Malphite possible?

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Bliisk

Member

08-21-2012

Im asking as to what would be the best items to purchase to be an AP Malphite, and/or whether or not AP Malphite is decent.
I want to know is it that much worse than making it a non ap focused build and if i proceed with AP Malphite what non-ap items do i have to still get to make sure i do good in games (a good build would be nice).
Im asking this as most posts regarding this say screw ap go ad or armour focused build but none of them actually say any good builds and the builds i find are old and i want to make sure what a good build would be
(also please explain any technical lingo or refrain from it (e.g. armogs))
p.s this is because every time i've played malphite I think i've done decently and i've never gone and done those builds that focus on armour or attack damage armour.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

08-21-2012

You can go with Tanky AP and do fine. Pure AP like a carry is a bad idea of course. Malph scaling is all over the place. Scales with AD, armor, AP. So really, CDR is the best way to increase your DPS (as well as magic pen) since you can cast all your stuff more often.

Compared to most champs though his AP scaling is kind of weak. He has 0.7 for his Shard (compared to 1.0 for nunus snowball), and 1.0 ult (vs 2.5 potentially for nunu ult).

So even compared to nunu (who rarely takes much AP if any), he is inferior. Comapred to Cho Gath (another tanky meleeish champ), his AP scaling is wayyy worse.


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COMMANDO MASTER

Senior Member

08-21-2012

AP Malp in the right hands is really strong.

I would recommend items such as Abyssal Scept, Deathcap, DFG

Start with d rings and get sorc shoes.

AP Malp is defiantly viable, but he's way better played as a tank.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

08-21-2012

It's possible, but it drops off in effectiveness really fast.

A splash of AP and some magic pen can help a lot in your early game, but in teamfights you're going to be more use to your team as a tank or bruiser.


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Essieu

Senior Member

08-21-2012

If you go pure AP you find yourself lacking tankyness.

If you go pure tank, you find yourself not doing enough damage.

When I play Malph I go either top or mid. Both works since his shield helps negate most burst damage early.And his slow makes ganking mid CAKE for your jungler.

I start boots 3 health pots.
Building into Gp5 items is good gives you sustain, decent tankyness, and lucky pick can add some damage.
Depending on what you need, then get an Abyssal, or a Sunfire, or a Frozen Heart.
Finish off your gp5 items, DFG, Randuins, Dont really need the shurelyias so generally I sell philo stone later.
Try to fit a zhonyas in their somewhere.
The Reason a zhonyas is so ridiculous, is because it gives you good AP, Good Armor (E scales off of armor) And if you ever happen to get low, bam zhonyas and hopefully your team can clean things up.

Basically you wind up being the same regardless of where you go. Only difference is the order you get things.


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Nightdancer ND

Senior Member

08-22-2012

Pure AP is too squishy and he has a high burst when you combine all your abilities, but you have to go in at zero (with ult) and if they survive... you are dead.

TankyAP is awesome! RoA/Sorc boots/Abyssal/Frozen
Burst is still high, but you can keep in and do even more damage.

I would not recommend to do a Deathcap - It never paid out for me.

I really don't know why in the tournaments the go on pure tank - you see that Malp is so unimportant in the late game then.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

08-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightdancer ND View Post
Pure AP is too squishy and he has a high burst when you combine all your abilities, but you have to go in at zero (with ult) and if they survive... you are dead.

TankyAP is awesome! RoA/Sorc boots/Abyssal/Frozen
Burst is still high, but you can keep in and do even more damage.

I would not recommend to do a Deathcap - It never paid out for me.

I really don't know why in the tournaments the go on pure tank - you see that Malp is so unimportant in the late game then.
You think Malph is unimportant in late game team fights as a tank?

Do you know why Malph is so strong? It's not because of his damage output, but because his E completely screws right clickers over. Like the enemy AD carry.

A Malphite built for damage is squishier, easier to take out, and won't be as disruptive. A fully tanked up Malphite still does reasonable aoe damage over time since ground slam scales off armor for bonus damage, and he makes the enemy carries cry because they can't kill this thing that's removing a ton of their attack speed.


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Nightdancer ND

Senior Member

08-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae View Post
You think Malph is unimportant in late game team fights as a tank?

Do you know why Malph is so strong? It's not because of his damage output, but because his E completely screws right clickers over. Like the enemy AD carry.
Not completely. It is not bad, it is like a build in Frozen Heard. That's why this item is so very strong on him - it stacks. But a FoN or a Warmogs does not add anything further - sure he is more tanky, but you don't focus him anyway - you are not a threat only a nuisance.
But if you add a RoA and a Abyssal you are nearly as tanky, but also a constant threat - and your ult will hurt. The ult of the full tank Malp does "only" a brief interrupt.

IMHO a tank has not only to be tanky. A tank should always be someone that couldn't be ignored.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

08-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightdancer ND View Post
Not completely. It is not bad, it is like a build in Frozen Heard. That's why this item is so very strong on him - it stacks. But a FoN or a Warmogs does not add anything further - sure he is more tanky, but you don't focus him anyway - you are not a threat only a nuisance.
But if you add a RoA and a Abyssal you are nearly as tanky, but also a constant threat - and your ult will hurt. The ult of the full tank Malp does "only" a brief interrupt.
Abyssal is a nice item for Malph to get, since the MR reduction boosts the damage from his ground slam, gives him MR and also boosts his Q and R a little bit.

Rod is a bad item for Malph to get, because rushing it (the only smart way to use the item) doesn't do much for your laning versus other options, you get TONS of wasted mana that you will never need, you don't get all that much AP out of it for what you're paying, and all you're really left with is health.

If you deem yourself sufficiently tanky with Malphite and want to be more of a personal threat rather than 'only' making the enemy right clickers rage at you in addition to your good initiation...sorc shoes, haunting guise, abyssal scepter. Pick any of them. You'll get more damage out of this late game than you will by trying to turn him into a mage, since magic pen works on all 3 of his nukes as opposed to just 2 of them.

But believe me, you can't ignore a Malphite, because you'll risk losing. Your carry will be operating at such a huge drop in effectiveness that their damage becomes pitiful. Meanwhile the enemy carry does not have this problem. Being a threat isn't soley about being able to actually kill the enemy carry - that's what your bruisers and assassins are for. Malphite's a tank. The tank's job is to be disruptive enough that he CAN'T be ignored, because his presence screws over your team, thereby inviting the enemy team to hit him. Malphite does this perfectly, and this is why he's become near permaban status lately.


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Nightdancer ND

Senior Member

08-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae View Post
Rod is a bad item for Malph to get, because rushing it (the only smart way to use the item) doesn't do much for your laning versus other options, you get TONS of wasted mana that you will never need, you don't get all that much AP out of it for what you're paying, and all you're really left with is health.

If you deem yourself sufficiently tanky with Malphite and want to be more of a personal threat rather than 'only' making the enemy right clickers rage at you in addition to your good initiation...sorc shoes, haunting guise, abyssal scepter. Pick any of them. You'll get more damage out of this late game than you will by trying to turn him into a mage, since magic pen works on all 3 of his nukes as opposed to just 2 of them.

But believe me, you can't ignore a Malphite, because you'll risk losing. Your carry will be operating at such a huge drop in effectiveness that their damage becomes pitiful. Meanwhile the enemy carry does not have this problem. Being a threat isn't soley about being able to actually kill the enemy carry - that's what your bruisers and assassins are for. Malphite's a tank. The tank's job is to be disruptive enough that he CAN'T be ignored, because his presence screws over your team, thereby inviting the enemy team to hit him. Malphite does this perfectly, and this is why he's become near permaban status lately.
I like to take a RoA, because I need health. It is very gold efficient, getting me AP and mana (if you use your skills often during a longer team fight you might get low, if you only have a Frozen Heard).
I see a Sunfire Cape often taken, but IMHO it is not that good overall (it has been nerfed too much, such as Warmogs). Haunting Guise give not enough health - it is still only a minor item. A Rylais as an other option for HP, would not be optimal, too. (your Q already slows and your R knocks up)
RoA or the Catalyst gives you sustain on your lane / or jungle. You could also go and take a Banshee, if the game goes not the way you like to.

IMHO he is a perma ban, because he is a good jungler and also a good ganker and also could be usefull in the teamfights, too.