The jungler whao got all the kills, isn't he supposed to be blamed?

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gvaness

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinistar View Post
As the jungler for my team, it was both sides to be blamed. The jungler shouldn't have taken all the kills, and DEFINITELY shouldn't have pushed the lane. When I jungle I find map awareness to be the most important thing. The jungler is pretty much support for all lanes, to an extent, and therefore I will only take the kills if:

A) The lane has a few kills under their belt and I am starting to fall behind a little bit.
B) The person in lane is either dead, or isn't going to be able to make it to get the kill before the enemy gets away (if the laner smited and the smite will get the kill, I will walk away.)
C) We are in a team fight where really, I can afford to take some kills.
Yes. The only thing that sounds wrong by the jungler is pushing the lane. When I jungle, I make a point to only kill in lane, during the laning phase, if I am covering a lane and am saving cs from our tower. Anything more than that is taking control of a lane that isn't mine.

As far as getting kills, I don't think it should matter too much. I would always much rather have the Jungler get the kill and not risk the target getting away. If I feel bad about it, I remember that most of that gold will go back into wards that mid certainly will never buy. A mid with a few assists and no deaths should be crushing an opponent with several deaths both in cs and levels.

Lastly, if Alistar was getting kills over Ryze, what was Ryze doing? Alistar is great at keeping people in place, but no one should really have that much trouble getting a kill over him, unless they were not engaging when the jungler went in, in which case, your Ali was pretty good, as I see a lot of Jungler deaths because of stuff like that.


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Mageinta Warrior

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Alistar passive has been known to steal kills.


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AlphariusRising

Member

08-20-2012

Assists give money too, and pushing a lane denies the enemy farm.


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Sheldor73

Junior Member

08-21-2012

Junglers always get the blame; just played a game where i counter jungled the enemy jungler so ridiculously hard that they fell 4 levels beneath everyone else and the lanes still complain that I am doing terribly because i havent ganked since giving first blood to our top laner, lay off the junglers a little and blame yourself more for not winning your lane/warding your lane.


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maximumboss

Senior Member

08-21-2012

Since when is pushing a lane always a bad thing? I swear.. formulaic rigid thinking is what ruins the potential for more creative strategy in this game. Pushing a lane is an incredibly effective means of denying CS and experience, depending on when you do it. After a gank the priority should be to stay and push as much as you can, preferably netting a tower in the process. Even if you dont get a tower, it resets the lane and denies 10-15 minions for the enemy laner.

Anyways, it was your Ryze's fault. Kills don't enter into it. Your Ryze simply couldn't maintain a laning advantage even with massive jungler assistance. This is why I have given up on solo Q gank junglers like Lee sin and Shaco. Sure, you can net kills and create lane pressure, but all of that doesn't amount to much if the laner him/herself can't keep up the advantage. 6 deaths is inexcusable if Ali was dominating mid.


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tunmi

Member

08-21-2012

There are multiple ways to look at this.

1. Ryze has a hard time farming while Ori's passive makes Last hiting a BREEZE. So the fact she has more CS then him is not surprising.

2. Ali should have given the kills to Ryze if possible. Ryze fed > Ali fed. Especially late game.. feed your lanes. Ali plays as more of a support/tanky role on the team and does not need to get fed, he should feed his carries and take the gold off the assist and gp items

3. Ali pushing the lane is questionable.. If its under your tower, he should push just out of range and move on.. if its close to their tower than go ahead, get a few cs and push it so Ori loses some CS. If its right in the middle then i wouldn't even bother because then your just taking CS from the mid laner.

4. Sounds like Ryze also had bad positioning if he died that many times

5. IMO Ori coutners Ryze with her Range, then she can EW to run away if he gets to close

In short, it is arguable over who's fault it is but IMO they are both to blame.


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Mageinta Warrior

Senior Member

08-21-2012

The jungler was doing his job. The laner was just bad. Just this morning I had to take first blood as support because my adc couldn't finish the kill. In solo queue, you can't leave it to chance. You finish your bloody kills and you push.


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AlphariusRising

Member

08-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheldor73 View Post
Junglers always get the blame; just played a game where i counter jungled the enemy jungler so ridiculously hard that they fell 4 levels beneath everyone else and the lanes still complain that I am doing terribly because i havent ganked since giving first blood to our top laner, lay off the junglers a little and blame yourself more for not winning your lane/warding your lane.
Yesterday I played Shaco in a game where our Leona/Ashe gave a double kill to Ez/Leona before minions even spawned, and then kept dying over and over again. Leona kept leaving her lane as well to go gank others, cuz she had teleport.

Guess who got the blame. The poor Shaco who was the only one in the team that didn't feed. (3/2/4)


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Brent Schroeder

Senior Member

08-21-2012

"An allied turret has been destroyed!"

"wtf jungle NO GANKS!!"

I agree. Jungle gets blamed for everything.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

08-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by tunmi View Post
2. Ali should have given the kills to Ryze if possible. Ryze fed > Ali fed. Especially late game.. feed your lanes. Ali plays as more of a support/tanky role on the team and does not need to get fed, he should feed his carries and take the gold off the assist and gp items
If the Ryze is at all competent, it shouldn't be POSSIBLE for Alistar to 'steal' the kills if he TRIES.