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Do you think the Tribunal is effective?

Yes (Please explain why) 347 65.72%
No (Please explain why) 181 34.28%
Voters 528 .

Poll: Do you think the Tribunal is effective?

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Ding an Sich

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
4Touchdowns1Game:
Why not? All the evidence is there, he either does something offensive or doesn't, there's no grey area there. Just like a cop who looks into a speed camera - the car either goes above the speed limit and has committed an offense, or doesn't.


No you are only considering the experience of the watcher and the device being used. In your example you don't even consider why the car is speeding, or the motive of the person driving the car.


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Ding an Sich

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Donnylicious:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/5654428/ (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/5654428/#nogo)

Kind of didn't want to post any other players involved and leave it up to this community to scrutinize but, it's the only way.


Yours didn't take long at all. Incident 1 and 3 you did a good job "rolling" with the punches so to say, even more so not really retaliating. However 2 and 4 you failed to actually show you wanted to work with your team (if lets say you still did this and they were terrible, then it would of been noticed). Even more so you started being toxic and inducing name calling in an "eye for an eye" fashion.

Agreed you aren't the worse, the only bad thing I can really say about you is if even one person is bad towards you, you have a chance of being equally bad towards them. Which leads to the problem of almost every player in that game having a bad time (maybe not the enemy team if they all liked winning for your team's inability to work together).

Now should others players be punished? Yes. But it is your case, not theirs. If they are really as toxic as they seemed towards you, then they will get sent to the tribunal as well.

Edit: Probably should of done this when I posted this message.


1.Do you feel that reporting players is effective in encouraging admirable gameplay or is it more of a nuisance and simply a tool for reprisal? I could not personally tell you considering I have none of the numbers. However taking a contemporary moral issues class we went over the death penalty and its ability to "scare" people to act the right way. As we learned after years and years of using it, its ability as a deterrent is less than real, and is more a money sink than anything. I can only say for my personal experience, gaming has gotten a lot better in Lol.

2.Does the Tribunal make players want to be more positive or does it just make players afraid they'll get banned again?
Well Riot has given us statistics about this, but before that lets go over the perceptual issue with your question. Does a system stop people because they are afraid or unaware? If we look at psychology and different parenting styles, or even basic forms of conditioning, we can find some success in fear. However the general issue is not everyone takes fear the same, some fall in line, others rebel, and even more continue to do it.

I once parked at a university, but I had forgotten to get a pass for the parking. When I returned I saw a note on my car, and instantly felt the discomfort of forgetting to get a pass, and not knowing what is about to happen. To my surprise it was actually a warning letter. Now not only did this actually happen, but this is how Riot operates. The only fear you really get is an email warning you, but not actually giving you any harm, and seeking to enlighten you incase you truly had an absence of thought.

If things persist you get a small slap on the wrist, and the email to support in case a mistake was made. Now going back to the statistics: Pendragon and Lyte have both confirmed generally after a certain number of suspends, the threshold for the person committing acts to reform becomes extremely small and rare. So to answer your question, Riot does both, but more pragmatically. They do not just give you a punishment, they give you a warning, and reasons as to why (or at the very least point you on how to behave). They simply lay out a good way of seeing how the person wishes to proceed. If they decide to clean up their act, another ban may happen incase their new behavior is still out of line, or if they did well then will never really receive another punishment.

4. Is the Tribunal fair in accessing the entire picture even though it's based on limited evidence? I've never had to really second guess any of my cases. I start out simple by reading what the reporter's said, but knowing some people can be bitter or trolls themselves, I only take from them an exact event they say happens in the game, and can be proven. Score's don't matter (too much) either since there can be bad players or just a bad match. Look in the chat logs at what the reported victim said (anything hostile, toxic, or just being a bad team mate?). Generally if I can't find anything by that, I read the entire log, and usually pardon (I look at all the incidents of course).

5. Do actions and programs like The Tribunal help promote Riot or just makes them lose customers? Well I've never seen a game that has a system built on the player base like this help the game itself. You don't see anything about the tribunal on ads, or actually information regarding the game. But yes technically RIot will lose customers, but that's what this type of system does by default whether it is perfect or broken.


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Donnylicious

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Maleficarum:
I remember the age before the tribunal.

Things are much better now. I honestly haven't seen a single person legitimately feed since the program went live, even if they threaten to do so.


I remember the age of the beta, the age of Dota, and the age of Warcraft 1. I've noticed no change. There will always be toxic players coming in. Anonymity and misbehavior go hand in hand especially in PVP type games like these.


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GophTheGreat

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Incident 1: Nothing amiss here. Your allies were *******s and you looked like you were at least trying.

Incident 2:

Trundle[00:09:42] :wow, i come to help and you're being a ***

I realize you're being bullied at the outset but this is just not the way to react. From this point forward you only contribute to the overall game negativity even more. You also said you gave up partway through which is just wholly inappropriate and, quite frankly, kind of childish.

Incident 3: I would let that first outburst go, just looks like you had a bad game.

Incident 4: Blatant unnecessary negativity. It wasn't even in retaliation, you just prodded at your allies when they were having a bad game.

Whelp, we're here to determine guilt and you're definitely guilty. Don't know what else to tell you.


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Donnylicious

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Ding an Sich:
Yours didn't take long at all. Incident 1 and 3 you did a good job "rolling" with the punches so to say, even more so not really retaliating. However 2 and 4 you failed to actually show you wanted to work with your team (if lets say you still did this and they were terrible, then it would of been noticed). Even more so you started being toxic and inducing name calling in an "eye for an eye" fashion.

Agreed you aren't the worse, the only bad thing I can really say about you is if even one person is bad towards you, you have a chance of being equally bad towards them. Which leads to the problem of almost every player in that game having a bad time (maybe not the enemy team if they all liked winning for your team's inability to work together).

Now should others players be punished? Yes. But it is your case, not theirs. If they are really as toxic as they seemed towards you, then they will get sent to the tribunal as well.


For 2, how did you get that I was toxic? I was a jungle Trundle coming to gank mid, he calls me a **** and tells me to get the **** out. I feel I don't want to play with this team anymore, so I get reported.
For 4 I stated earlier, that this was the first game of me using Zya. I didn't know her abilities so I thought she sucked. Hence, "this girl sucks" Of course I'm going to die a lot with a new champ, so I'm 4/10. Should I get a punish vote for it? I don't think so.


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Donnylicious

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
GophTheGreat:
Incident 1: Nothing amiss here. Your allies were *******s and you looked like you were at least trying.

Incident 2:

Trundle[00:09:42] :wow, i come to help and you're being a ***

I realize you're being bullied at the outset but this is just not the way to react. From this point forward you only contribute to the overall game negativity even more. You also said you gave up partway through which is just wholly inappropriate and, quite frankly, kind of childish.

Incident 3: I would let that first outburst go, just looks like you had a bad game.

Incident 4: Blatant unnecessary negativity. It wasn't even in retaliation, you just prodded at your allies when they were having a bad game.

Whelp, we're here to determine guilt and you're definitely guilty. Don't know what else to tell you.


It's either stand up for yourself, assume they can take it if they can dish it out, or put them on ignore and lose.

For 4 I stated earlier, that this was the first game of me using Zya. I didn't know her abilities so I thought she sucked. Hence, "this girl sucks" Of course I'm going to die a lot with a new champ, so I'm 4/10. Should I get a punish vote for it? I don't think so.

This proves my point that anyone looking at this chat log will vote punish and that is why the Tribunal is flawed.


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GophTheGreat

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Donnylicious:
It's either stand up for yourself, assume they can take it if they can dish it out, or put them on ignore and lose.

For 4 I stated earlier, that this was the first game of me using Zya. I didn't know her abilities so I thought she sucked. Hence, "this girl sucks" Of course I'm going to die a lot with a new champ, so I'm 4/10. Should I get a punish vote for it? I don't think so.

This proves my point that anyone looking at this chat log will vote punish and that is why the Tribunal is flawed.


What this proves is that you aren't open to an outside second opinion.

Retaliating is immature. Simple as that. Wouldn't you like a more mature playerbase? Why make yourself part of the problem?


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Ding an Sich

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Donnylicious:
For 2, how did you get that I was toxic? I was a jungle Trundle coming to gank mid, he calls me a **** and tells me to get the **** out. I feel I don't want to play with this team anymore, so I get reported.
For 4 I stated earlier, that this was the first game of me using Zya. I didn't know her abilities so I thought she sucked. Hence, "this girl sucks" Of course I'm going to die a lot with a new champ, so I'm 4/10. Should I get a punish vote for it? I don't think so.


No. You feel like you don't want to be on this team, so then you act out against them in a bad way.

No. See I can't tell if you are trolling, or are really wondering. In the case you aren't trolling: You over simplified your entire match and chose a biased statement to describe your situation. It's like if a girl went around telling people X raped her, but X was actually her BF who wanted to break up with her, so she threatened X.

For 2 you really didn't respond in a good way: /... You could of asked calmly what are you doing, and see what happens. If of course whatever was happening failed you could bring up another nice way of saying what you wanted, but instead you became fed up and just decided to be as bad with the rest of them, which actually caused your other team mates to start disliking you.

For 4:Zyra[00:39:41] :can't kill anything cuz graves always runs and shen can't taunt
Shen[00:39:41] :tho
Trundle[00:39:43] :youre a moron
Shen[00:39:48] :zyra
Shen[00:39:51] :youre never near me
Shen[00:39:52] :when i taunt
Shen[00:39:53] :tho
Shen[00:39:54] :l0l
Zyra [All][00:40:30] :grats shen on taunting someone

Why would you ever think this is something you should say to someone?! I don't understand it. This is not only terrible, but going backwards we see the hostilities of Shen and other team mates once again was based off your earlier passive-aggressive statement about Shen missing and probably being the same in ranked.

100% report.


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Waldgeist

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Donnylicious:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/5654428/ (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/5654428/#nogo)

Kind of didn't want to post any other players involved and leave it up to this community to scrutinize but, it's the only way.

Inc 1: Sarcastically berating your jungle. Not productive, but borderline.
Inc 2: Insults: "***", "noob". Guilty.
Inc 3: Insult: "**** u". Guilty.
Inc 4: Sarcastically calling out your teammates' mistakes throughout entire game. Negative attitude that affects team performance. Guilty.

Final judgment: Punish.

You need to understand that venting your anger in chat does not help anyone. Literally the only effect it has is making it more likely for you and your team to lose. Type only productive things. If your emotional state requires venting beyond that, type it in a seperate window or say it out loud.


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Ding an Sich

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Donnylicious:
It's either stand up for yourself, assume they can take it if they can dish it out, or put them on ignore and lose.

For 4 I stated earlier, that this was the first game of me using Zya. I didn't know her abilities so I thought she sucked. Hence, "this girl sucks" Of course I'm going to die a lot with a new champ, so I'm 4/10. Should I get a punish vote for it? I don't think so.

This proves my point that anyone looking at this chat log will vote punish and that is why the Tribunal is flawed.


Defending yourself does not mean equally insulting them. Defending yourself when someone calls you bad is saying "I tried/am trying but X happened". You don't not apologies and then continue to insult other players without even discussion what happened on the moment you got called on (if it really was).

No don't put them on ignore. Just keep playing. If you ping, or ask for help, and they say something bad or refuse, and this is a constant behavior, then they will end up reported and not cleared by a riot employee or the tribunal.

You didn't make a good argument, if anything it just furthered the reason why you might get reported again, and your mindset that caused the bad incidents.