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Do you think the Tribunal is effective?

Yes (Please explain why) 347 65.72%
No (Please explain why) 181 34.28%
Voters 528 .

Poll: Do you think the Tribunal is effective?

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Lyte

Lead Social Systems Designer

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08-19-2012

Quote:
Corngina:
No.

It literally gives power to the masses and puts the minorities at risk of being abused. 4 member premade on your team? Odds are you'll be reported for some silly reason, and if at any point in the match sounded like anything worse than a Kindergarten teacher (no this is not hyperbole), you'll find yourself punished.


Players are very unlikely to be punished by 'premade bullying.' We purposely look for stuff like this and have designed the system to take this into account.


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Koechophe

Senior Member

08-19-2012

Lyte, I feel like one of the biggest issues behind this game is the attitude. We have an extensive "Punish the mean people" system, but we have absolutely nothing to support people who are NOT reported and are NOT toxic. Other than the 450 rp given last christmas (I still have mine =P) we've seen nothing that supports players who actively try to be a positive presence in game.


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Spencer

Senior Member

08-19-2012

For those that are saying 'no'. I would like to add some anecdotal evidence.

The community before the tribunal was awful. Arguably the worst in any game. 0/20/0 boots and zeal(s) Yi's were frighteningly common. I would argue I saw one every other day (given a few hours of game play per day).

The most poisonous element in the game was removed (and fairly quickly). If you look at the complaints now of banned individuals, the abuses are almost 100% verbal now (which is still unfortunate, but it only indirectly affects gameplay).

I see the tribunal as a police force. It is a necessary evil, and one which needs to be carefully monitored for abuses and inefficiencies. That said, I would never want to do without it.


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Maleficarum

Senior Member

08-19-2012

I remember the age before the tribunal.

Things are much better now. I honestly haven't seen a single person legitimately feed since the program went live, even if they threaten to do so.


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Radiant Being

Senior Member

08-19-2012

I have never been wrongly banned by the tribunal, and I would say that I have successfully voted on many cases where the outcome was punished and many that weren't. I'd say it definitely works, to what extent I am unsure, but it does.


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Schmucky85

Senior Member

08-19-2012

Quote:
Lyte:
But I ask you, how many cases are perfectly legitimate and accurate? For every case you see on the forums where you believe the banning was unjust, what if there are 50,000 cases where the banning was just?

Is it possible to have a perfect system where the false positive rate is 0%? What false positive rate is acceptable to players? In medical fields, a false positive rate of 5% is considered standard and a false positive rate of 1% is excellent. We hold the Tribunal to harsher standards, requiring much better than a 1% false positive rate.

As a company, banning players and removing players from the game is the last thing we want to do. We take banning very seriously--we have Player Support reviewing tons of cases to assign punishments and ensure accuracy. We have designers, analysts and executives personally reviewing numerous cases every week, even ones that are just for warnings.


Totally didn't answer his claims. He asked what good it is to ban people so they make new accounts thus, trolling and raging at new players, as opposed to banning the main account for weeks at a time or some other finite amount, so that new players don't have bad experiences. My girlfriend is at Lvl 13 and I'm watching her play games and these people in games are playing like lvl 30's and are OBVIOUSLY banned 30's because they are horrible in chat, yet playing like pro's. You're post isn't an answer to his statements. Basically you're saying you're false positive rate is fantastic. Great. That really doesn't have much to do with the post...


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

08-19-2012

No, because my friend has never been banned, and I've seen him treat people like ****. It's hard to want to play with him when he is so rude to people.


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Lyte

Lead Social Systems Designer

Follow RiotLyte on Twitter

08-19-2012

Quote:
Schmucky85:
Totally didn't answer his claims. He asked what good it is to ban people so they make new accounts thus, trolling and raging at new players, as opposed to banning the main account for weeks at a time or some other finite amount, so that new players don't have bad experiences. My girlfriend is at Lvl 13 and I'm watching her play games and these people in games are playing like lvl 30's and are OBVIOUSLY banned 30's because they are horrible in chat, yet playing like pro's. You're post isn't an answer to his statements. Basically you're saying you're false positive rate is fantastic. Great. That really doesn't have much to do with the post...


I answered this in another post, which is why I didn't repeat it there.

Not every toxic player is going to make a smurf when they are banned--we can never expect a 100% success rate with a punishment. When we ban a player, only a % of them create a smurf account and we are working on addressing those that do.


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Corngina

Senior Member

08-19-2012

Quote:
Lyte:
I think you might be missing the point; how does a positive reinforcement system change some of these extremely toxic players? It doesn't. Some players simply need to be removed from the game. There's unfortunately no unified solution to player behavior.

If you really want people to discuss your case, you should post your Reform Card.


With the grey zone, however, and the countless examples of people being reported for activity that is in response to toxic behavior, or simply being ganged up against by a toxic team, this whole system really leaves an icky feeling. Yes, you always have more mysterious data that you refer to when you respond to these people, but it doesnt help me from feeling like a member of the judenrat in nazi-occupied warsaw every time i involve myself in the process.


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Lyte

Lead Social Systems Designer

Follow RiotLyte on Twitter

08-19-2012

Quote:
Corngina:
With the grey zone, however, and the countless examples of people being reported for activity that is in response to toxic behavior, or simply being ganged up against by a toxic team, this whole system really leaves an icky feeling. Yes, you always have more mysterious data that you refer to when you respond to these people, but it doesnt help me from feeling like a member of the judenrat in nazi-occupied warsaw every time i involve myself in the process.


I come from an academic background and am extremely data-driven. If there's any data whatsoever that the Tribunal has a net negative effect on the community, I would immediately shut it down and prioritize resources on a different solution.

Unfortunately, we can't be as open with data as scientists can be in the academic fields; however, we've been working with our marketing teams to discuss how we could be more open with data than we currently are.