Voidling Malz bot

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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

08-18-2012

Only his last couple of games, not plenty. Seems he's trying builds we suggest on the forum.

Beetle, you're using a very authoritative voice in your posts, and then you argue till you're blue in the face against any dissenting opinions.
You should listen, and be less adamant in your position. It happens to be wrong.


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Phourc

Senior Member

08-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Only his last couple of games, not plenty. Seems he's trying builds we suggest on the forum.
Good for him then xP

Hopefully he finds it an improvement, I know I messed with different ways to do it and came up with pretty much the same way the majority of the community builds him (and dear god is FoN so much bettter than Odyn's, I was surprised o_O)


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Melvear

Senior Member

08-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phourc View Post
Good for him then xP

Hopefully he finds it an improvement, I know I messed with different ways to do it and came up with pretty much the same way the majority of the community builds him (and dear god is FoN so much bettter than Odyn's, I was surprised o_O)

I haven't tried FoN myself, and I have a hard time believing it can be better in terms of survivability (I understand it's far better for sustainability in lane)
50 MR and -10% magic damage, as well as 350 hp seems far better in terms of effective health than 76 MR.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

08-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvear View Post
I haven't tried FoN myself, and I have a hard time believing it can be better in terms of survivability (I understand it's far better for sustainability in lane)
50 MR and -10% magic damage, as well as 350 hp seems far better in terms of effective health than 76 MR.
FoN isn't just 76 MR, it also gives 40 hp/5 AND % max health hp/5.
The extra movespeed also helps you escape ganks, kite enemies, and position yourself better.

While Odyns helps mitigate AP burst better, FoN will eventually out-do Odyns in a prolonged situation eg: laning, which is why it is the superior option as long as you aren't dying instantly.


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Melvear

Senior Member

08-18-2012

Considering Malz has just slightly below 2k hp with my runes/masteries, FoN would give him 75 hp/5 at level 18, so it'd take 23 seconds or so to regenerate as much health has what Odyn's provide up front. I suppose nothing stops me from getting both though. There always seems to be that last item slot where I'm like "What to get.... meh, Maw it is"


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

08-18-2012

Actually, Odyn's isn't really much better at mitigating burst. The MR / Armour formulae used in LoL scales such that every 1 point provides ~1% effective health.

The +26 MR on FoN is effectively 26% EH over Odyn's. Odyn's counters with 10% flat reduction (~11% effective health) and +350 health (about ~15% health for Malz). So they're actually quite close in terms of best-case-scenario burst mitigation.

FoN has the sustain advantage and free move speed. Veil has some extra mana, an AOE proc, the health helps against AD, and gives less piercing to a void staff. So I think if you're looking solely at the bot lane AP vs AP matchup, FoN has the edge, but I still prefer Veil for overall usefulness. They're both solid options anyway.


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Volandum

Senior Member

08-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
Actually, Odyn's isn't really much better at mitigating burst. The MR / Armour formulae used in LoL scales such that every 1 point provides ~1% effective health.

The +26 MR on FoN is effectively 26% EH over Odyn's. Odyn's counters with 10% flat reduction (~11% effective health) and +350 health (about ~15% health for Malz). So they're actually quite close in terms of best-case-scenario burst mitigation.

FoN has the sustain advantage and free move speed. Veil has some extra mana, an AOE proc, the health helps against AD, and gives less piercing to a void staff. So I think if you're looking solely at the bot lane AP vs AP matchup, FoN has the edge, but I still prefer Veil for overall usefulness. They're both solid options anyway.
+26 MR is 26% of your health effective health. You're comparing 186 and 211 MR though, so the improvement is more like 13%.


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

08-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volandum View Post
+26 MR is 26% of your health effective health. You're comparing 186 and 211 MR though, so the improvement is more like 13%.
No, you're comparing the raw mitigation. I'm comparing effective health.

Going from 50% to 63% (eg. 100 MR to 126 MR) is worth the same EH as going from 0% to 26% (eg. 0 MR to 26 MR) in terms of survivability.


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Volandum

Senior Member

08-19-2012

It's worth the same flat number of EH, but NOT the same % of EH, which is what you were discussing.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

08-19-2012

I usually get a Frozen Mallet on Malz lategame just so my voidlings can keep up with my enemies, so that puts my end-game health at around 3k.

So extremely lategame FoN gives me slightly >100 hp/5, which means it takes somewhere around 15-20 seconds to equal the health advantage of Odyns.