Voidling Malz bot

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TheBeetle

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Open discussion on AD malz, build orders etc. here are some of my opinions, he's been my go-to pick for winning bot. He's pretty weak top because voidlings have low HP and die to AOE, so any AOE ult comps will nullify you.

I've played him AD, AP and hybrid trying a lot of builds, I've decided I like AD vs. other AD champs and hybrid vs. AP, I don't like pure AP as much as hybrid because it's less forgiving of messing up your combo, having your ult on CD during a gank or revive because you already used it or QSS. Having strong voidlings gives you the option of pet kiting which has netted me a lot of kills and flipped a lot of fights from me being chased to being the chaser.

The reason I choose AD for AD and Hybrid vs. AP is because I can more easily work armor into an AD build and MR into an AP build without sacrificing good offense from my core build.

I should note I run a hybrid rune and mastery page to provide my E with enough damage to get by early game and my voidlings some good damage for level 3 duels.

After trying a lot of builds my order I've settled on is something like this:
AD:

Chain vest + boots, **** ton of both pots.
This is my "Bot vs. Yorick" build mostly because it's the only build I've yet to consistently beat Yorick with, you can sustain long enough to farm up and beam to get better items, wait for a gank, maybe even poke him to death.
After this I beam for CDR boots and a Glacial Shroud. My next goal is to build a Sanguine Blade or Black Cleaver depending on if my enemy is building armor or not. BC allows me to reduce their armor for my voidlings, I cannot confirm if they inherit Malz's armor pen, if anyone knows this I would appreciate the input.
After the first one I finish my Frozen Heart unless I'm really fed and dominating and not being ganked heavy, then I get the other BF sword item I left out.

So core is Frozen Heart, CDR boots, Sanguine, BC. The goal is to be tanky enough to take their harass, build a lot of voidling damage and cap CDR. Frozen heart provides all the mana I need, using my E + minion damage and the buffs to regen will hold me over fine.

After this the items depend on many things, good choices include frozen mallet if they run from voidlings and / or bought a QSS to pop your ult and run from the double void rape. Maw if either magic starts ganking you or gets switched into your lane. I haven't played around a lot with crit items or things like Tri-force because of price and low pet synergy. Voidlings just scale so hard compared to trying to build for self-damage, 2x voidlings on even a tank will do so much damage they'll often die during an ult.

Hybrid:

Chalice + boots + 2 health one mana
Depending on opponent your order will differ, goal is:
Finish Grail, Sorc Boots, Gunblade, Frozen Heart, Abyssal Scepter.

Your last item depends on what you're against, how much time is left in the match etc. I've tried a lot of different things and found success with another gunblade, deathcap, sanguine blade, etc. Whatever it is it should be a heavy cost item.

I really liked this build and found it to be my go-to while I got a feel for Malz for a long time, you get both good voidling damage and spell damage. Grail + FH gives basically endless mana you can spam your spells all day netting double voidlings and constant harass on your opponent. Honeslty it's pretty OP except against Yorick who I've needed to take my AD build against because it has a higher raw DPS at the cost of poke and burst.

Some things I've noted about general voidling management: Their range is small so you need either to be tanky, or have a slow, or both to make full use of them. I usually also take ghost for this reason, so I can chase down fleeing opponents with my voidlings without them running out of range. They'll also use bushes to juke them, having the survivability to dive in the bush to pick up the kill or initiate an ult combo is defining for me.

Once you have sufficient AD to push the lane with just auto attacks it's often better to cast 3 spells to chamber up a pet then just auto attack push, most lane opponents will be too scared of you at this point to harass and if they do, pet rape them and take their tower.

While Malz can charge up a Manamune I'm convinced it's a pointless item for him, he gets enough mana back from his E and whoring buffs bot to not need the regen, FH gives enough pool to keep him going, and you're delaying useful items too long to get the stupid tear of the goddess, just forget about it.


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FDru

Senior Member

08-16-2012

I don't understand why there's ever discussions about AD Malz.

Build manamune, build tanky mana items, spam every button and win the lane. It's like Ryze, but I think Ryze might actually require more skill.


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TheBeetle

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Because manamune is a fail item you get on SR for sustain, in dominion there are buffs that give you mana back right by your lane you can ***** out.


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Orphane

Senior Member

08-16-2012

/facepalm

You don't get Manamune by itself for the mana regen, you get it for the pure Scaling AD you're going to get from charging it combined with the Frozen Heart/Odyn's Veil you're probably getting.


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Melvear

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeetle View Post
Because manamune is a fail item you get on SR for sustain, in dominion there are buffs that give you mana back right by your lane you can ***** out.
I lol'ed

Seriously, Ad Malz goes something like this:
Tear+boots. Spam spells like mad
buy manamune
complete boots (mercs or tabi)
vs ap? buy catalyst
vs ad? buy glacial shroud
buy whichever you haven't bought
complete frozen heart
complete odyn's veil
buy last whisper, or brutalizer if they somehow haven't caught on to your build and don't have armor. (Your voidlings do in fact make use of your armor pen)
Last item is always up in the air. I've built Maw, I tried gunblade, Void staff. Really depends on the enemy team.

With this build, you're tanky as hell, your voidling deal massive damage, you can have up to 3 at a time, and you have your ult up very frequently.
The thing with AD malz is that, while you do have good AD, your attack speed is s.hit. The best thing to do in a fight is to hover around and let your voidlings do the smacking. If your enemy turns to fight them, go right ahead and attack him, and attack if your target is nearly dead, but going toe to toe with a melee is generally a bad idea.


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Yeah, the idea of a Sanguine is somewhat misguided. Lifesteal needs attack speed and crit scaling to be worthwhile; it's mostly a wasted stat on Malzahar.

Black Cleaver might have some merit (the shred will help the voidlings), but it requires you to be attacking the enemy while Brutalizer / Last Whisper don't.

Quite simply, you shouldn't expect to be fighting toe-to-toe with anyone. If you can get a few free shots off, great. But committing to a frontal attack is suicide against any strong duelist.


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TheBeetle

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
Yeah, the idea of a Sanguine is somewhat misguided. Lifesteal needs attack speed and crit scaling to be worthwhile; it's mostly a wasted stat on Malzahar.

Black Cleaver might have some merit (the shred will help the voidlings), but it requires you to be attacking the enemy while Brutalizer / Last Whisper don't.

Quite simply, you shouldn't expect to be fighting toe-to-toe with anyone. If you can get a few free shots off, great. But committing to a frontal attack is suicide against any strong duelist.
Lifesteal also scales indirectly with survivability, by lowering incoming damage to be closer to healing you increase the effectiveness of the healing. You don't have to heal **** tons through lifesteal, just enough to live while your voidlings do work.

And I've yet to see a strong duelist beat me when I'm well farmed, double voidling will 100 to dead a player with good defenses in 3-4 seconds of up time easy because it's imbalanced.


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TheBeetle

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
Yeah, the idea of a Sanguine is somewhat misguided. Lifesteal needs attack speed and crit scaling to be worthwhile; it's mostly a wasted stat on Malzahar.

Black Cleaver might have some merit (the shred will help the voidlings), but it requires you to be attacking the enemy while Brutalizer / Last Whisper don't.

Quite simply, you shouldn't expect to be fighting toe-to-toe with anyone. If you can get a few free shots off, great. But committing to a frontal attack is suicide against any strong duelist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orphane View Post
/facepalm

You don't get Manamune by itself for the mana regen, you get it for the pure Scaling AD you're going to get from charging it combined with the Frozen Heart/Odyn's Veil you're probably getting.
Or you could just go straight for useful items instead of waiting for mana scaling to give you mediocre AD off your passive.


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Melvear

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Lightbringer may be of some use if you really want to be fighting, neutralizing bushes means voidlings will waste no time due to jukes.


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inFe eD

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Glass cannon AD malz hooooo.