team has no initiate, what do?

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Lumek

Senior Member

08-16-2012

I've been looking to pick up Udyr, sinec I tried him out this free week and noticed that unlike other junglers (read, Maokai and Mundo) I can actually gank successfully (yeah I'm bad, what of it?). However, Udyr's chief weakness has been bugging me, and so I started considering other junglers who have a gap closer, like Xin or Nocturne.

That chain of thought brought me to the question at hand. I remember once in a totally unrelated game that although I was doing really well and I knew my team could win fights, I was Cho'Gath and out jungler was Udyr, and because of this we had no real initiation, and so we lost because of it.

These two paragraphs tie into me deciding to kill to birds with one stone and look into a solution to both my crappy jungling and what to do when a team lacks initiation. What do you do in situations without an initiate? I've noticed that the jungler is usually the one with the initiation ability, but Udyr doesn't really have that. Is there a reliable solution to this beyond being so ahead that it doesn't matter if you don't have a solid initiate? Should I just forget about Udyr and work on Maokai, who DOES have a reliable initiate, despite him being a lot harder for me to use?

Yes I know this post is a jumbled mess of ramblings and needless backstory, I just couldn't think of a good way to say what I wanted to.

tl dr: can't initiate fights, what do?

Thanks in advance


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iDpark

Senior Member

08-16-2012

I cant quite make sense of what you're saying.

1. You have a problem with jungling.
2. You have a problem initiating.

If you want to pick udyr to jungle, Don't be scared to burn flash at the beginning or at the end to initiate/secure.

I usually build him tanky, so I have no problem with dying in teamfights.

If you want another jungler, ask around.
Easy junglers for me are Amumu,Nunu, and mundo. I stick mostly with those 3.
As you can see, amumu and nun have good initiation. Mundo is just a freaking boss with a low cd ult (works like ghost) and if you run exhaust, should ensure a kill. His agony is great damage early and cc reduction later.

And fiddle is good post 6 ganker. Notice all of these champs are low ip champs and easy to learn.

Good luck in the jungle. I need it and you might need it too.
(I suck at jungling)


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ViashinoWizard

Senior Member

08-16-2012

It depends on what champions you pick: any position can initiate if you pick the right champ. For example:

Solo top: Malphite, Galio, Kennen, Jarvan IV, Renekton, Rumble, Wukong
Mid: Galio, Kennen, Orianna, Vladimir, Zyra, Annie
ADC: Ashe, Varus
Support: Blitzcrank, Alistar, Leona, Sona

Udyr isn't a great initiator, but if he's able to get into the middle of the enemy team (either through speed boosts or sneaking up on them) he can do okay with Bear & Phoenix Stance and Raduin's Omen.

That being said, I wouldn't advise picking Udyr if none of the other lanes are going to have a good initiator. Besides Maokai, good initiation junglers include Amumu, Malphite, Nautilus, Fiddlesticks and Hecarim, among others.


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Lumek

Senior Member

08-17-2012

Yeah, I was really tired when I made this thread, sorry about that. Main thing I want to know is what to do if, for whatever reason, our team DOESN'T have a solid initiator. I understand that I should pick someone who can if nobody else does, but sometimes I act stupid and don't notice our team's lack of initiation power until the game actually starts.


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Judas Priest

Senior Member

08-17-2012

Surrender and start another game, if it's not ranked.


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Jesot

Senior Member

08-17-2012

If you're having trouble gap closing with Udyr, try building a Bilgewater cutlass. And, as was said, flash if on Udyr for.ganking.


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KentukyWaterfall

Senior Member

08-17-2012

Obtain map control via wards and oracle. When you have cleared an objective (dragon or baron) of wards and placed your own, you can camp brush for an ambush initiate. It's not ideal and should be addressed in champion selection instead.


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zliplus

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Senior Member

08-17-2012

Alternatively, focus on movement, zone control, and poke. Split pushing is also an option if you can't force a team fight.


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Squalleke123

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Member

08-17-2012

the chances of not having any initiate ability in the entire team are mostly rather slim. But if it happens you need to catch them out of position or keep poking them so they don't initiate.

It's mostly better if your team initiates the teamfight as you will be more likely to be in a good position so if you can't do that, your chances of winning are severely reduced.

There are less convenient options to initiate though. AP ezreal can initiate with blink and zhonya's for example. It's a bit of a waste, but what needs to be done, needs to be done.
As udyr, just flash in, stun and you already have ur initiate.


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Nanuuk

Member

08-21-2012

Teams with no initiator need to try to focus on warding and trying to catch the other team off guard.

A late game Udyr will have lots of slow, so if you get on someone, as long as your team is nearby you can pick up the kill and push the game. It's hard to imagine having a team with no initiators. I can understand maybe not BIG initiators (ali, malph, leona, kennen, etc) but you should have some sort of ranged cc to catch someone.

---

I just realized Squalleke123 said pretty much the same thing, that's what I get for only reading thread starter


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