New Garen discussion: was he nerfed or buffed?

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Cenerae

Senior Member

08-15-2012

He actually doesn't feel any weaker than he did before, to me. His spin is slightly worse early game (I run an AD rune page), but the ability to break out of snares on demand, and the extra tenacity on W (not to mention longer duration late game) makes up for it.

Now I think on it, his E actually really isn't much different, since it now scales off total AD rather than only bonus AD.


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RamboJeezus

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by powwder View Post
so i played garen 5 out of my last 10 times. won 4 times, lost once. won the game which i played him after patch and these are my thoughts...

unlike in my previous post i now think.....they didn;t really do anything to him......all these changes did pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of things.

every other remake they actually changed skills.....

xin = his passive is armor pen not heal on third hit. they moved the heal on third hit to anotehr skills. his ult knocksback
kat = her passive changed to reduce ult and completely refresh other moves on kill/assist, they got rid of her w and gave her a aoe spell
eve = she has a passive pseudo "stealth", her ult is a aoe nuke that slows not some lame move speed increase

garen.....all his moves stayed the same,, just values changed on them...

his fundamental problems still remain that being his damage is still subpar, he has no real cc, no gap closer besides a small move speed increase.

that being said, its still just as easy to kill people early.....aa once, decisive strike right after, judgement, if they stay and fight use courage. once they are at like 70% hp do it again but ignite and ult them....should kill pretty mcuh anyone. you can start harass as early as level 1 because judgement > any other level 1 skill damage wise. at level 2 its easier because you have decisive strikes move speed bonus.

late game you are more like a sacrifice so your team can win. you don;t have any cc or gap closers so you run in face first and spin.

in every game i played even after the remake it happened the same way....i get 3-4 kills early, snowball and get a bunch of creepscore and late game just soak damage.....
They changed how his Q W and E work, thats not just a value change.


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Judas Priest

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoraxe89 View Post
I use to be a big Garen player pre-patch. Playing him now I can say his early game is shot to hell. His spin is no longer a threat at the early levels. His W passive now only works well if you build defensive items (which garens shouldn't do early game). And that movement speed reduction on minion hit....terrible. The reason why I played Garen in the first place was because of his stupidly good early game at the trade off of a bad late game. Now without his awesome early game, he really doesn't have a spot on the team. He can't really jungle, he can't support, he can't mid, and now he really isn't a threat at top lane. He is just there.
Yes, just as I said, he is not viable anywhere. This champion really needs a buff to be playable again.


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Generous Lover

Senior Member

08-19-2012

people havent seemed to grasp yet that the move to 20% armor and magic resist encourages building more defense, meanwhile the move from BONUS AD to TOTAL AD means you get more free damage just from leveling so you dont have to build damage you can just build even more defense and let your base stats handle the scaling. look at it this way 140% bonus AD vs 110% total AD means you lose 30% scaleing BUT you now benefit from the 115 AD just for being level 18. the longer duration on his W encourages building HP.

aka tank the hell up, youll deal just as much damage as prerework garen with the added bonus of being MUCH MUCH tankier. (he also benefits more from level than ever before so getting an early level lead will throw you ahead).

tldr, new garen benfits MORE MORE MORE from defensive stats, while maintaining the same damage as old garen despite no longer building AD. slightly weaker early game, WAY stronger late game in terms of OMG WHY WONT HE DIE.


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Greenlee19

Senior Member

08-19-2012

garen sucks guys im not trolling at all math proves it. riot completely smashed his early game for SLGIHT increases to his late game its not even by much AT ALL. as said before his W is horrible as well cus no one builds armor until late game when they get guardians until then you are extremely squishy.

what was awesome about old garen was he was a lane bully with a good early game he would push the enemy champ out early and shut them down. now he gets shut down majority of the time and you cant even see the SLIGHT late game buffs cus you are too under fed to get there :/

you guys can say whatever you want but he is trash now especially when trying to chase someone down. before we would run towards them with Q and if we got slowed we could use our other move to get out of the slow but NOW we have to slowly run towards them as they run away from us and if we pop Q we waste BOTH the run speed and the get out of slows so they still get away and leave us open to ganks, not to mention if you use judgment while chaseing you even so much as barely touch a enemy minion and you slow yourself by 20% sounds so epic huh?

now can someone NOT TROLLING really tell me HOW ANY of the changes besides his passive were better?

oh and if you just post saying something like "oh i win all my games with garen you guys just need to learn to play" you prob play normal blind picks and i wont take anything you say seriously.


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XxxLumberJackxxX

Senior Member

08-19-2012

Played last night where Garen destroyed Singed, I had to completely babysit him.
Seemed weired...


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Judas Priest

Senior Member

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Generous Lover

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenlee19 View Post
garen sucks guys im not trolling at all math proves it. riot completely smashed his early game for SLGIHT increases to his late game its not even by much AT ALL. as said before his W is horrible as well cus no one builds armor until late game when they get guardians until then you are extremely squishy.

what was awesome about old garen was he was a lane bully with a good early game he would push the enemy champ out early and shut them down. now he gets shut down majority of the time and you cant even see the SLIGHT late game buffs cus you are too under fed to get there :/

you guys can say whatever you want but he is trash now especially when trying to chase someone down. before we would run towards them with Q and if we got slowed we could use our other move to get out of the slow but NOW we have to slowly run towards them as they run away from us and if we pop Q we waste BOTH the run speed and the get out of slows so they still get away and leave us open to ganks, not to mention if you use judgment while chaseing you even so much as barely touch a enemy minion and you slow yourself by 20% sounds so epic huh?

now can someone NOT TROLLING really tell me HOW ANY of the changes besides his passive were better?

oh and if you just post saying something like "oh i win all my games with garen you guys just need to learn to play" you prob play normal blind picks and i wont take anything you say seriously.
i posted numbers that YOU ignored, you the move from bonus AD to total AD means you lose only 30% AD scaleing but gain the benefit of your 115 base damage in return.

the move to % armor and magic resist means MORE defense past 120 armor and magic resist which is super easy, most bruisers trip their way to 120 of each resist just for rolling out of bed. (also some would argue the 25 flat armor and magic resist gives you a stronger early game but rememebr you had to farm those stats the rate of growth is nearly the same, with the added benefit that it just KEEPS growing)

the longer duration on latter levels of W means building HP is worth more its half of alistars ultimate as an active to a passive active skill how can you not love that, youve conveniently ignored the CC reduction for all of your arguements.

yes the slow purge was moved to Q from E, but the speed boost now lasts longer AND the cooldown is shorter so you can purge more often. if your complaining that you need to purge a slow and your too far away, blowing your E to purge the slow the old way would just waste your E damage, your putting way to much faith in the old purge it was TERRIBLE.

garens late game tankyness puts others to shame 30% damage reduction for 6 seconds, 30% CC reduction, a slow purge, 20% more armor and magic resist, few champs dare dream of tank stat scaleing like this.

i ran a bot game to see what all the fuss was about, i ran mercury treads, frozen mallet, aegis of legion, guardian angel, randuins omen, and ghost blade (poor choice IMO). and i was hitting 200AD, 3250HP, 325AR, 225MR.

people complaining about new garen are building too much AD, and not budgeting enouph defense like the new scaling demands.


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MemoryLapse

Senior Member

08-20-2012

I feel like this was a huge buff. I main Garen, and I have had a ton of success with him in both normal and ranked. I have made 3 veryyyyy long and detailed youtube videos about garen.

Here is a link to my video that dissects this new rework. I go over everything in the patch then show in game clips of the buff in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ_uDY44Zok

Please thumbs up if you dont mind helping out a fellow summoner on youtube.


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BK Ambientz

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Padre Judas View Post
I think Garen is not viable anywhere. He desperately needs a significant buff to be playable.
Laughed so hard at this


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