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New Garen discussion: was he nerfed or buffed?

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Judas Priest

Senior Member

08-15-2012

General
* Base Health Regen reduced to 8.25 from 9.85
* Health Regen per level reduced to 0.75 from 0.85

LVL OLD NEW
1 9,85 8,25
2 10,70 9,00
3 11,55 9,75
4 12,40 10,50
5 13,25 11,25
6 14,10 12,00
7 14,95 12,75
8 15,80 13,50
9 16,65 14,25
10 17,50 15,00
11 18,35 15,75
12 19,20 16,50
13 20,05 17,25
14 20,90 18,00
15 21,75 18,75
16 22,60 19,50
17 23,45 20,25
18 24,30 21,00

* Base Attack Damage reduced to 56 from 60.1
* Attack Damage per level increased to 3.5 from 3
LVL OLD NEW
1 60,10 56,00
2 63,10 59,50
3 66,10 63,00
4 69,10 66,50
5 72,10 70,00
6 75,10 73,50
7 78,10 77,00
8 81,10 80,50
9 84,10 84,00
10 87,10 87,50
11 90,10 91,00
12 93,10 94,50
13 96,10 98,00
14 99,10 101,50
15 102,10 105,00
16 105,10 108,50
17 108,10 112,00
18 111,10 115,50

Perseverance (Passive)
* Delay increased to 9 seconds from 7 seconds
* No longer deactivates when damaged by lane minions
* Now displays the Health Regen gained in the tooltip


Decisive Strike
* Cooldown reduced to 8 seconds at all ranks from 12/11/10/9/8
* Movement Speed increased to 35% at all ranks from 15/20/25/30/35%
* Movement Speed duration adjusted to 1.5/2.25/3/3.75/4.5 seconds from 4 at all ranks
* Base damage increased to 30/55/80/105/130 from 30/45/60/75/90
* Silence duration reduced to 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 seconds from 2.5 at all ranks
* Now removes slows on activation
* Can now critically strike again
* Buff duration reduced to 4.5 seconds from 6
* Fixed: Garen's next basic attack after Decisive Strike no longer occurs unusually quickly
* Fixed: Decisive Strike is no longer consumed if Garen fails to finish attacking
* While performing Decisive Strike, Garen now continues to follow his target if they are moving


Courage
* Changed to passively increase Armor and Magic Resist by 20% rather than 0 to 25 based on kills
* Damage reduction adjusted to 30% from 20/24/28/32/36%
* Active now additionally grants 30% Crowd Control Reduction
* Duration adjusted to 2/3/4/5/6 seconds from 3/3/3/3/3
* Cooldown adjusted to 24/23/22/21/20 seconds from 30/27/24/21/18


Judgment
* Damage adjusted to 20/45/70/95/120 (+0.7/0.8/0.9/1.0/1.1 total Attack Damage) from 50/90/130/170/210 (+1.4 bonus Attack Damage)
* Damage dealt to minions increased to 75% from 50%
* No longer removes slows on activation or reduces the duration of incoming slows while active
* Ignores unit collision during Judgment but takes a 20% Movement Speed penalty when spinning through minions
* Fixed: Judgment no longer locks out Garen from taking other actions longer than intended


Demacian Justice
* Cooldown adjusted to 160/120/80 seconds from 140/120/100


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Etherimp

Senior Member

08-15-2012

I don't think he was buffed or nerfed.. I think he was balanced. Which is to say, his early game is weaker and his late game is stronger.


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Jesot

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Do the speed, regen, and armor changes make him a viable jungle?


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Judas Priest

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Jesot:
Do the speed, regen, and armor changes make him a viable jungle?


I think Garen is not viable anywhere. He desperately needs a significant buff to be playable.

Before this patch, he had a medium early game and a ridiculous late game. His only utility was to soak damage from turrets when your teammates wanted to dive. In general, he wasn't a good pick at all, by any aspect. After this patch, considering his early game reduce and his late game despicably raise, I think he will suck during the entire game, from the begining till the end. He will be useless in early game and he'll still be useless in late game.


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LotusBlue

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Jesot:
Do the speed, regen, and armor changes make him a viable jungle?


He could jungle before, albeit somewhat slowly. Now he can actually clear camps with e at a reasonable pace. His ganks deal significant damage both pre and post rework, but his lack of hard cc means you need to coordinate with your lane-mates to secure the kill.

Source: 6 games of pre-rework Jungle Garen, 2 games post-rework. 7/8 wins.


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Jesot

Senior Member

08-15-2012

It seems like the q, cd, and w changes will make early jungling much faster. Also, Garen jungle means mid gets blue early game.

With a Taric support and adc with cc, you could wreck a lane pretty quick.


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Judas Priest

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Have someone played as Garen already? I only played with a Garen and he totally sucked (but the old Garen sucked too, so I can't compare).


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powwder

Senior Member

08-15-2012

so i played garen 5 out of my last 10 times. won 4 times, lost once. won the game which i played him after patch and these are my thoughts...

unlike in my previous post i now think.....they didn;t really do anything to him......all these changes did pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of things.

every other remake they actually changed skills.....

xin = his passive is armor pen not heal on third hit. they moved the heal on third hit to anotehr skills. his ult knocksback
kat = her passive changed to reduce ult and completely refresh other moves on kill/assist, they got rid of her w and gave her a aoe spell
eve = she has a passive pseudo "stealth", her ult is a aoe nuke that slows not some lame move speed increase

garen.....all his moves stayed the same,, just values changed on them...

his fundamental problems still remain that being his damage is still subpar, he has no real cc, no gap closer besides a small move speed increase.

that being said, its still just as easy to kill people early.....aa once, decisive strike right after, judgement, if they stay and fight use courage. once they are at like 70% hp do it again but ignite and ult them....should kill pretty mcuh anyone. you can start harass as early as level 1 because judgement > any other level 1 skill damage wise. at level 2 its easier because you have decisive strikes move speed bonus.

late game you are more like a sacrifice so your team can win. you don;t have any cc or gap closers so you run in face first and spin.

in every game i played even after the remake it happened the same way....i get 3-4 kills early, snowball and get a bunch of creepscore and late game just soak damage.....


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Ahrelia

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Padre Judas:
I think Garen is not viable anywhere. He desperately needs a significant buff to be playable.


You`re crazy. Garen could deal both massive damage, be a super tank mid game and late game. To get through the early game all you needed to do was make use of his passive. Keep in mind, this was pre-buff/ nerf.


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Thoraxe89

Junior Member

08-15-2012

I use to be a big Garen player pre-patch. Playing him now I can say his early game is shot to hell. His spin is no longer a threat at the early levels. His W passive now only works well if you build defensive items (which garens shouldn't do early game). And that movement speed reduction on minion hit....terrible. The reason why I played Garen in the first place was because of his stupidly good early game at the trade off of a bad late game. Now without his awesome early game, he really doesn't have a spot on the team. He can't really jungle, he can't support, he can't mid, and now he really isn't a threat at top lane. He is just there.


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