ADC Mastery Debate

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Eledhan

Senior Member

08-13-2012

Not posted to Strategy because it's a boneyard haunted by a few ghosts of summoners past... wanted as much exposure as possible!

tl-dr: Reduced damage & HP/5 masteries are OP...why don't people use them?

I have often wondered what mastery setup would be best for ADC, considering many of them have mana concerns (or must carefully manage their mana consumption) and also need to maintain their DPS and survivability.

The debate is really not about what masteries to use in the offense tree, as I believe there are 2 pretty standard (for physical and hybrid damage) options. However, I've considered the possibility of dropping to 19 (instead of 21) in offense so I have another 2 points to put in either defense or utility.

And therein lies the problem. I know many pros use 9 in utility for (I think) the mana, summoners, MS, and then the buff duration or something else (wards?). However, I feel like there is more power granted by going with the defensive masteries. Allow me to explain...

Defense masteries = +6 armor, -2 minion damage (will explain benefit later), +3 HP/5, -2 incoming damage (for a total of 10 points...19+10 = 29. Put one point in Flash or Heal mastery)

Utility masteries = +12 mana per level, +MS%, +3 Mp5, Player's choice (for a total of 10 points...19+10 = 29. Put one point in Flash or Heal mastery)

+6 armor is hard to beat in any setting...it's so vital to early game trades against opponent ADC, in my opinion, and certainly doesn't compare to the same tier in utility. However, I'm going to look at the whole set of mastery pionts.

If I go with the Defense mastery set, I can trade auto attacks and win if my opponent has utility. This is because I don't take nearly as much punishment from minions (-4 minion damage per attack OP), plus, I have 3 HP/5 more regen than they do from masteries. In order to offset my low mana regen, I take the Mp5 glyphs so I am not running dry too fast.

If I go with the utilty, I can't auto attack without getting wrecked by minions. Just one auto attack to enemy champ could bring as many as 6 auto attacks from the ranged creeps, meaning that if I didn't get the -4 damage, I'd be taking an extra 24 damage just because I auto attack harassed. And in a straight up fight, I would probably take much more than an extra 24 damage. Not to mention I don't have the HP regen. All for a little extra MS and mp5 and either Ward sight range, 0.5% MS, or buff duration?

I just can't see how Utility is better than Defense if you use the Mp5 Glyphs instead of the MR/level ones. Sure, you'll be a bit further behind with defense against magic damage late game, but my experience with ADC has been if you are getting caught by their magic damage, the extra MR isn't going to make enough of a difference compared to having a dominant/reliable early game.

Eagerly awaiting criticism and thoughts!


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Slotted Pig

Senior Member

08-13-2012

Flat MR is vital in winning trades against Ezreal, Corki, and Tristana (though she's not used as much) as well as Sona, Taric, Blitz, Leona, etc.

edit: also +red buff duration is really good


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Eledhan

Senior Member

08-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlottedPig View Post
Flat MR is vital in winning trades against Ezreal, Corki, and Tristana (though she's not used as much) as well as Sona, Taric, Blitz, Leona, etc.
So are people taking flat MR glyphs at high levels? If so, that would explain the need to use the Mp5 in utility...and if you're there, best counter for most of the names you just listed is more MS, which is also in utility...

I guess it just comes down to player preference, huh? I just love being able to auto attack harass and it not affecting me in any noticeable way.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

08-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlottedPig View Post
Flat MR is vital in winning trades against Ezreal, Corki, and Tristana (though she's not used as much) as well as Sona, Taric, Blitz, Leona, etc.

edit: also +red buff duration is really good
Red buff duration that good on an ADC?

I dunno...I mean, sure, it's great...not saying it isn't. Just...extra time to deal an extra 10-30 damage in a fight? Even if it's true damage, doesn't seem like enough mid-late game (since jungler should be taking it up til that point.)

I just don't see that it's as big an advantage as the survival from defense...I think, like I already said, that it might just be player preference...no hard-set winner here.

Show me I'm wrong! Trying to learn something here, not prove a point.


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Brontobeuf

Senior Member

08-13-2012

Maybe you should not use that much mana. This way, you can get Def tree and the glyph you want.


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WHERES DA TEAM

Senior Member

08-13-2012

You're supposed to tailor your masteries and runes the best you can to each game you play.

If I'm up against an aggressive lane, I'll go nine points in defense for armor, heal/cleanse (or MR) and health per level/+30 health.

If I'm in a farm lane, I'll either go defense to try to push them out by winning trades or utility to have mana to push the lane to tower to deny them CS as best I can.

If I'm playing a mana hungry carry like Graves or Ezreal, I'll go into utility to better manage mana. Et cetera.

Never have a single build and a set up of stats for every game. You have to adapt to your opponents, your team, and the play styles of both.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

08-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brontobeuf View Post
Maybe you should not use that much mana. This way, you can get Def tree and the glyph you want.
Well, I could...but then I can't push around my opponent, push the lane hyper fast as needed, can't be as mobile, etc.

All of the above depend on the champ, of course, but...saying to just "use less mana" is kinda silly. There's a distinct advantage to being able to out-harass/push/jump around etc. than your opponent.

Anyway, I've been able to recover from awful starts using the concept in the OP, as well as establish a hefty lead in the HP/Mana race early with proper trades/poking. It'd be helpful if perhaps you could show me how I can win that race faster/easier or come back from bad starts faster/easier instead of just say things like "don't use as much mana". Not that it wasn't good advice, just...not the kind of thing that makes much sense to me, given the advantages of being able to use more abilities than my opponents.