Garen's late game is fine.

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Etherimp

Senior Member

08-12-2012

I disagree. Silencing the enemies AP carry or even their tank for several seconds (Q) is a huge asset to your team. Garen makes a great anti-carry and tank-slayer.. But he's not a tank. He's tanky because he's melee. With no "Tank" items he would get instantly blown up.

Also, stop comparing Darius to Garen. They're completely different champions. Darius doesn't have escapes. Garen does. Daruis doesn't have sustain. Garen does. Garen is more "naturally" tanky than Darius. Darius has more damage output than Garen. Garen has no mana. Darius does. Garen can silence, Darius can pull. Darius isn't "Better", he's "Different".


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etherimp View Post
I disagree. Silencing the enemies AP carry or even their tank for several seconds (Q) is a huge asset to your team. Garen makes a great anti-carry and tank-slayer.. But he's not a tank. He's tanky because he's melee. With no "Tank" items he would get instantly blown up.

Also, stop comparing Darius to Garen. They're completely different champions. Darius doesn't have escapes. Garen does. Daruis doesn't have sustain. Garen does. Garen is more "naturally" tanky than Darius. Darius has more damage output than Garen. Garen has no mana. Darius does. Garen can silence, Darius can pull. Darius isn't "Better", he's "Different".
Point One: If your disagreement was with me, then you're probably reading my posts slightly wrong. I like Garen, a lot. He's just not a tank (we agree). His silence IS useful, although I typically am using the Q for the speed burst to chase/escape more than the silence. And yes, he's definitely the best tank-slayer in the game. But you've pretty much nailed it. He's naturally tanky because he's melee (and not an assassin).

Point Two: Garen and Darius have their similarities and their differences. I think it's fair to compare one champion to another. Listing differences doesn't make two champions completely different, it just proves their not identical. Listing commonalities does not make them identical, it just proves their not completely different. I'll agree though that one isn't necessarily better than the other. The differences between Garen and Darius are pretty much just differences, not things that one has entirely better than the other, etc.


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Etherimp

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Point One: If your disagreement was with me, then you're probably reading my posts slightly wrong. I like Garen, a lot. He's just not a tank (we agree). His silence IS useful, although I typically am using the Q for the speed burst to chase/escape more than the silence. And yes, he's definitely the best tank-slayer in the game. But you've pretty much nailed it. He's naturally tanky because he's melee (and not an assassin).

Point Two: Garen and Darius have their similarities and their differences. I think it's fair to compare one champion to another. Listing differences doesn't make two champions completely different, it just proves their not identical. Listing commonalities does not make them identical, it just proves their not completely different. I'll agree though that one isn't necessarily better than the other. The differences between Garen and Darius are pretty much just differences, not things that one has entirely better than the other, etc.
I am responding to the common sentiment that "Darius does everything Garen does, but better."

Whoever told 'them' that didn't know what they were talking about, and whoever believes and it repeats it is speaking purely out of ignorance.

Keep in mind, I play both champions and enjoy them both from time to time. I have no bias one way or the other.


Darius cannot tower-dive nearly as well as Garen. There.. I listed at LEAST one thing that Garen does WAY better than Darius.


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acosn

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Garen's a soak, not a tank. He's got no taunt, he has atrocious initiating ability and lacks any means of disruption beyond his silence.


Which is to say, he'll only ever tank a bad team.


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powwder

Senior Member

08-12-2012

The reason people compare Garen and darius is they fill similar roles and their skills are similar. The main difference is Garen is harder to kill, darius kills people more effectively.

Garen falls off late game because his damage output suffers when he is built tanky so others ignore him. If he doesn't build tanky his damage output is still lacking and he gets blown up instantly. He also only has a silence for cc purposes......he's just hard and **** to kill.

Darius on the other hand can be built tanky, has a slow, has a pull, and his finisher ult that refreshes on kill. His ult is true damage not magic damage, instead of increased armor/mr he gets armor pen. Instead of a silence he gets a slow. His spin frontloads the damage.


So you are right there are things Garen does better (like tower diving and not getting killed) but darius basically fixes why Garen falls off late game (has some cc and does more damage). Thats why people say "hes like an upgraded Garen"


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Etherimp

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by powwder View Post
The reason people compare Garen and darius is they fill similar roles and their skills are similar. The main difference is Garen is harder to kill, darius kills people more effectively.

Garen falls off late game because his damage output suffers when he is built tanky so others ignore him. If he doesn't build tanky his damage output is still lacking and he gets blown up instantly. He also only has a silence for cc purposes......he's just hard and **** to kill.

Darius on the other hand can be built tanky, has a slow, has a pull, and his finisher ult that refreshes on kill. His ult is true damage not magic damage, instead of increased armor/mr he gets armor pen. Instead of a silence he gets a slow. His spin frontloads the damage.


So you are right there are things Garen does better (like tower diving and not getting killed) but darius basically fixes why Garen falls off late game (has some cc and does more damage). Thats why people say "hes like an upgraded Garen"


They do not really have similar abilities, except an execute ultimate.

A lot of champions fill the same role.

Not trying to be contrary here.. Just sayin'. They're more different than they are similar.


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powwder

Senior Member

08-12-2012

So we agree theirults are similar.

Garens other abilities are
Q: increase his move speed, does extra damage, silences
W: increases armor/mr active reduces damage taken
E: spin and reduce slows
Passive: heals himself out of combat

Darius
Q: his spin....but frontloads damage instead of needing to chase
W: similar to garens q but instead of increasing his speed, slows the enemies.
E: instead of granting him armor/mr it gives him passive armor pen and its active instead of reducing damage he takes is a grab.
Passive: puts a dot on them.

They look similar to me except the living longer aspects of garens abilities were changed with kill the enemy aspects.


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Etherimp

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by powwder View Post
So we agree theirults are similar.

Garens other abilities are
Q: increase his move speed, does extra damage, silences
W: increases armor/mr active reduces damage taken
E: spin and reduce slows
Passive: heals himself out of combat

Darius
Q: his spin....but frontloads damage instead of needing to chase
W: similar to garens q but instead of increasing his speed, slows the enemies.
E: instead of granting him armor/mr it gives him passive armor pen and its active instead of reducing damage he takes is a grab.
Passive: puts a dot on them.

They look similar to me except the living longer aspects of garens abilities were changed with kill the enemy aspects.


Sure, if by "similar" you mean "polar opposites", Garen and Darius have a lot in not common.


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powwder

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etherimp View Post
Sure, if by "similar" you mean "polar opposites", Garen and Darius have a lot in not common.

I'm sorry I didn't know similar ment exactly the same. I thought similar would work because all of their moves work the same way with the same mechanic but just a different effect. Like garens q and darius w both refreshing his swing timer, doing extra damage. Or garens w and darius e both having a passive effect along with an active that supplements its passive. Or garens e ans darius q both doing aoe physical damage. oh and their ults both ment to finish enemies but darius can refresh his.ult and it does true damage instead of magic.damage.

You seem to miss the part where I say garen falls off late game because of weak damage and no cc.....darius doesn't have that problem.


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Urbaknight

Senior Member

08-12-2012

You FAIL!


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