Garen's late game is fine.

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yuah

Senior Member

08-12-2012

I just played a seventy minute ranked game. Had a poor KDA early game. Went into late game and had the 2nd best score on my team. Garen is meant to be a tank with a little offense. Not the other way around.


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Defile

Senior Member

08-12-2012

a tank that u can completely ignore cuz he does nothing?

edit: unless ur already lit


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefilE View Post
a tank that u can completely ignore cuz he does nothing?

edit: unless ur already lit
This.

You can manage a decent score with Garen simply because of the way his ultimate works. Without building any AP (which is what his ult scales with), you can kill steal all your team's kills. That actually kind of works against your team because it's the carries that need the gold from kills, not the tank.

Garen isn't a tank. He doesn't have any tank utilities. No CC except a single target silence (and even non-tanks like Fiddle out-class that), and if you build him tanky, he doesn't do enough damage for anyone on the enemy team to be concerned with the damage he's putting out. All Garen brings is a reason for enemies to run away at slightly higher health, which essentially just steals kills from your team, one way or another.


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GatorHatur

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
This.

You can manage a decent score with Garen simply because of the way his ultimate works. Without building any AP (which is what his ult scales with), you can kill steal all your team's kills. That actually kind of works against your team because it's the carries that need the gold from kills, not the tank.

Garen isn't a tank. He doesn't have any tank utilities. No CC except a single target silence (and even non-tanks like Fiddle out-class that), and if you build him tanky, he doesn't do enough damage for anyone on the enemy team to be concerned with the damage he's putting out. All Garen brings is a reason for enemies to run away at slightly higher health, which essentially just steals kills from your team, one way or another.
What do you define as tank utilities? He has a shield that increases armor and MR


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powwder

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Garen isn't really a tank, he's just "tanky" because he's hard to kill. A real tank is hard to kill but also brings something else to the table
Mumu - Aoe stun, bandage stun
Rammus - knockup, taunt
Malphite - knockup, move speed/as speed debuffs.
Singed - fling, glue

Just to name a few. Garen brings a single target silence and that's about it. In a sense he is like a physical morde. Also just like morde he is only a threat if he does decent damage. Other real tanks don't really need to do damage but Garen has nothing else.

If Garen is going to have any success late game he needs to have an amazing early game. That's why you build damage on him first and tanky after.

The reason people.say Garen falls off late game is that Other people do the same things but better.....like darius


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thepantsparty

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Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorHatur View Post
What do you define as tank utilities? He has a shield that increases armor and MR
Tank utilities are the ability to initiate fights, peel people off your carries, etc. Simply being tanky is not enough to fulfill the tank role in fights.


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GatorHatur

Senior Member

08-12-2012

part of the reason darius does it better is because garens ult is basically the archetype of darius'


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yuah

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Well we turtled a game with no towers for about 25 minutes. This demonstrated I was able to tank well enough to be able to hold our defense points without the use of any towers and no inhibators from time to time. A feat I accomplished in late game where people say he can't perform.


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yuah

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Garen is meant to be a counter pick. Not a general top. If your feeding off your top while making them useless. That has more of a use then say an Amumu ulti.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorHatur View Post
What do you define as tank utilities? He has a shield that increases armor and MR
The fact that Garen does little damage while being built tanky, combined with his W that makes him even tankier are the things that make Garen a bad tank actually. All he is is hard to kill.

Name another champion that gets by purely on being difficult to kill. A champion that does no damage, and offers no slow, but is useful because he is hard to kill. There are none.

Graves' passive gives him Armor and Magic Resist. That doesn't make him a tank. You could also build defensive items on him. He still wouldn't be a tank. Heck, even Graves' W, Smoke Screen, is more of a tank utility than any of Garen's abilities, as it slows everyone in it, as well as kills their vision (meaning ranged champions in it can not do damage to anyone outside of it, etc).

For Garen to be an effective tank, he needs one of his abilities changed into either a strong, single target CC (like Rammus, or even Sion's stun) or a weaker AoE CC (like Shen, Amumu, Galio, Volibear, etc).

Tanks don't do a ton of damage. You're building defensive items on them rather than offensive items. But they have abilities that they use on the enemy to make it harder for the enemy to get away or make it easier for your team to kill them.

Garen doesn't have a way of forcing enemies to attack him, he doesn't have away to slow or fear enemies. All he has is the ability to prevent one enemy from using abilities for a few seconds. If you're taking tanky Garen, you'd be far better off taking Cho'gath. Cho'gath's Q makes it harder for enemies to escape (knocking them up, letting teammates catch up), his W is an AoE silence, and his ult not only does true damage, but makes him innately tankier in the process.


All that Garen is really good for, as a tank, is tanking turrets. If you're about to have a teamfight under an enemy turret, let Garen initiate. A few pieces of armor, and his W, will let him soak a lot of turret damage. Meanwhile, the enemy won't be attacking him at all (letting him soak the turret longer) since he doesn't do any damage. And his ult can secure some kills. And using this strategy, he can perform decently as an off-tank, but I still say you need some AD, like an Infinity Edge.


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