AP champs always getting nerfed (except annie of course)

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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

08-12-2012

This just in; Throwing a glass cannon at a brick wall shatters the cannon.

CANNON NEED BUFFS


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Galifrey

Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrael27 View Post
the point of mages are being able to stand off at distance and do dmg, a mage going toe to toe with an AD dps? ofc the AD will win, that is their advantage, if they couldn't do this then mages would be op, now, who would win if 2 strong AD champs are facing off, when Xerath in the bush near by demolishes the enemy AD... this game is about teamwork, not 1v1, and AD are suppose to be able to face off and close range and do good dmg, while mages can stand off at distance while being very weak and do large amounts of burst damage. and i say this as a mage, i love playing mages. particularly Xerath.
Good points. I'm not saying mages should win, but they should at least stand a chance at surviving long enough for a team member to come to their aid. In most cases they are SO squishy they die in seconds if the AD champ gets close enough. Even a ranged AD champ, because Attack Damage itself is much stronger than Ability Power, when really they should be on the same level damage-wise, just in different ways... 1 point of AD and 1 point of AP should be equal all things even (no armor, no magic resist etc...) The way this game is built it seems 2 points of AD are equal to 1 point of AP. This is the point I am trying to make.


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Galifrey

Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynastar13 View Post
OP is correct though. AD will always be more powerful because they can auto attack more often than an AP champ can cast their spells.

The fact that most AP champs have to aim their skills and also the fact that they are useless if they build defense only helps to further their inferior posistion as champions.

Lifesteal is also more sustainable than spell vamp as once an AP champ has unloaded they skills onto an AD champ they can simply heal the damage and the AP champ is left useless until their spells come back off cooldown.

Has always frustrated me that RIOT prefers to reward mindless autoattacking as opposed to the use of spells which require skill and practice to aim.
Exactly! Thank you!


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Galifrey

Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by **********fan0 View Post
Thats my point. If you don't even know how to build a mage in the first place.. I don't see how you think you have the insight to properly decide what is balanced or not.
You're incorrect on that too. Just because you use the commonly accepted cliche build, doesn't mean it is the only acceptable build to use. There are many AP items / combinations to use specifically to play to different characters strengths. Just beacuse I don't go and use someone elses build like you do doesn't mean I'm doing it wrong, it just means I choose to look for something different that EVERYONE else isn't doing.


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Bungboy

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Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galifrey View Post
Good points. I'm not saying mages should win, but they should at least stand a chance at surviving long enough for a team member to come to their aid. In most cases they are SO squishy they die in seconds if the AD champ gets close enough. Even a ranged AD champ, because Attack Damage itself is much stronger than Ability Power, when really they should be on the same level damage-wise, just in different ways... 1 point of AD and 1 point of AP should be equal all things even (no armor, no magic resist etc...) The way this game is built it seems 2 points of AD are equal to 1 point of AP. This is the point I am trying to make.
No. Just no. You are so, so wrong. Have you ever seen anybody ever get above 400 ad in a real non bot game? I doubt it. It is very rare. Yet it is not rare to see an AP champ get in the 600+ range. This is because you get much more AP than AD from items. AD and AP should NOT be equal because AP based abilities more often than not have an AP ratio of less than 1.0. I honestly don't even understand your argument. Why should you be able to survive an AD champ as an AP burst caster if you team is not even around you helping you? If you are really that keen on not getting killed in a game, either play with better teams or build tankier items.


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Bungboy

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Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galifrey View Post
You're incorrect on that too. Just because you use the commonly accepted cliche build, doesn't mean it is the only acceptable build to use. There are many AP items / combinations to use specifically to play to different characters strengths. Just beacuse I don't go and use someone elses build like you do doesn't mean I'm doing it wrong, it just means I choose to look for something different that EVERYONE else isn't doing.
I looked. As Leblanc you are building a void staff before anything else in games against real players. That is not good at all. There is no point building spell pen if you have too low AP for the spell pen to be effective.


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TheLonelyPhox

Junior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galifrey View Post
I always love how whenever an AP champ is released that can stand toe to toe with an AD champ they automatically nerf them (i.e. Zyra.) Oh Zyra can actually stand up to a Xin and live? NERF!!! This game is so pathetically overbalanced for AD champs it's a joke. AP champs should have at least a LITTLE chance to stand up to a pure AD champion. Sure you can build armor but at the expense of ANY damage you may do. It's frustrating and irritating as someone who likes Mage characters. Think about it if this was real life... Which would hurt worse? A knife or a giant fire ball to the face? I'm thinking the fire ball to the face would probably do more damage.

sir.....thats why most ap champs tend to have the advantage while back away shooting ranged stuff. and some even have that ya know stuns....slow....teleport...dash.....nuke.

while melee ad has ya know....survivability stuff.....melee abilites ect

and ad range has ya know...range abilities....self buff damage and ect.

brusers are tough....as they should be

if your saying that any ap should get buffed to when a ad would go "toe to toe" and win 50% of the time....why not all run ap?

i really really REALLY think you dont understand at all what this game is about. its a team game.


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DGGP

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Senior Member

08-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galifrey View Post
I always love how whenever an AP champ is released that can stand toe to toe with an AD champ they automatically nerf them (i.e. Zyra.) Oh Zyra can actually stand up to a Xin and live? NERF!!! This game is so pathetically overbalanced for AD champs it's a joke. AP champs should have at least a LITTLE chance to stand up to a pure AD champion. Sure you can build armor but at the expense of ANY damage you may do. It's frustrating and irritating as someone who likes Mage characters. Think about it if this was real life... Which would hurt worse? A knife or a giant fire ball to the face? I'm thinking the fire ball to the face would probably do more damage.
Xin doesn't have a knife, he has a giant tip (...and a spear behind it). That will probably be enough to chop your silly cloth armored mage self in half in one swing, killing you instantly. You can't possibly do any more damage than instant death, at most you can match it.

Example overruled.

AP champs are strongest during mid to early late game, once late game comes in full swing for an AD champion, they're supposed to be stronger. By this time, if you didn't use your previous advantage to create an advantage, you have to deal with it. Not to mention, Xin falls off dramatically late game due to no reliable escapes. You shouldn't be dieing to him unless you get caught, and in which case, it's not the "balance's" fault anyway


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Morbidanimosity

Senior Member

08-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galifrey View Post
Zhonyas gives you a split second reprieve before death in which you can't move or use your abilities. Sure it counters things like karthuss ult or miss fortunes ult, but inevitabely the AD still wins. You've never seen me play a Mage so your attempts to insult me are useless. You are ignoring my main point, a fully built AP champ vs a fully built AD champ will always lose, unless you have a stun or flash to save you.
Veigar would like to argue with this he is never fully built, limitless ap cap XD

okay but seriously, ad carries are usually squishy, and any good ap carry can combo and kill an ad carry easily most of the time.
Even then, most AP carries will have a LITTLE tankiness to hold them out till there stuff goes off cooldown/ so they can escape (zhonya's, RoA, etc...)

EDIT: i may have misread due to wierd coma placement o-o i assumed you meant the ad will lose.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

08-13-2012

if zyra can stand toe to toe with xin then xin needs to save up and buy a new champ purely out of shame