Upcoming Zyra Changes

First Riot Post
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SpreadZer0

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Well, I gained 120 elo in the last day thanks to her. It was fun while it lasted.

It does feel a bit extreme, but playing her the way they explained as "exploiting" - and it working - I get it.

I just wish I didn't buy her skin and everything, cause she might very well be dead after this : /


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Chocobo X

Senior Member

08-07-2012

wow you sure got to this pretty fast, what's taking you so long to fix darius?


actually he'd need a complete rework to be balanced, nevermind


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CloaknDagger222

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Also, Morello:

Why wasn't her ultimate addressed? While the changes you have implemented seem like they're going to do the job, wasn't much of her burst from the front-loaded damage of her ult? Why not give 50% upfront and 50% on a successful snap-back of her plant, rewarding skill?


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloaknDagger222 View Post
Also, Morello:

Why wasn't her ultimate addressed? While the changes you have implemented seem like they're going to do the job, wasn't much of her burst from the front-loaded damage of her ult? Why not give 50% upfront and 50% on a successful snap-back of her plant, rewarding skill?
Her Ultimate has been addressed.

A Red (I think CertainlyT, but i'm not sure) said it was because Q and her turrets were too unreliable for upfront damage if she missed E.

So she needed something that could be applied easily.


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Kanubai

Senior Member

08-07-2012

reducing the plants damage to 50% on two seems a bad choice to me. you cant go wwq anymore, since wq produces the same damage at less cost.


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CertainlyT

Champion Designer

08-07-2012
3 of 14 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanubai View Post
reducing the plants damage to 50% on two seems a bad choice to me. you cant go wwq anymore, since wq produces the same damage at less cost.
Only the second plant deals 50% less damage. The first plant still deals 100%. If WQ does 100% damage, then WWQ does 150% damage -- better burst, but at the cost of a seed that *might* do 1005 additional damage later. Now the choice is yours. Before it was probably a mistake to not always WWQ.

Also, in no way is Zyra going to be Eve tier. She's sufficiently fun to play against that when she was vastly overpowered about half our community was actually cool with that. This is the polar opposite of Eve. Roku, for example, still thinks she's potentially too strong. In fact, Zyra is still carrying games internally, just not every game. When she has a terrible early game now, she falls off. That's hardly something to complain about.

If these changes are indeed too severe, I will bring her up to balanced with the same commitment I've brought to toning her down. In the mean time, put some faith in our balance folks -- they generally get things right.


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Wendek

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
For this, we all agreed on these changes, I looked over these pretty extensively myself.

Additionally, you argued "nah it's fine" instead of refuting or contesting CertainlyT's well-articulated points. It's hard to have a balance dialog against "no." This is one of the most clear cut cases of OP we've had in a long time.
Yes she was OP. But now she's most likely dead. Remember last year's Orianna ? The nerfs were well-thought and argumented, too. She still ended up useless for something like ten months.
Byebye Zyra, you were fun to play.


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Xaxas

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Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
For this, we all agreed on these changes, I looked over these pretty extensively myself.

Additionally, you argued "nah it's fine" instead of refuting or contesting CertainlyT's well-articulated points. It's hard to have a balance dialog against "no." This is one of the most clear cut cases of OP we've had in a long time.
While I may have seem to say it's fine it was not my point, and I'm sorry for not stating that out, what I really meant is, the nerf could have taken another direction, YES Zyra is strong, YES she needed nerfs, but I feel out you gave her the Eve treatment, many harsh nerfs in 1 patch rather than spread out trough patches.

The thing is, after the Ahri nerfs and if I recall "People where building tanky while doing tons of damage" seemed a bit uncalled for; I'm an avid AP caster player, however after this nerf, people started scaping away with very, VERY low ammounts of HP, which always got me thinking "what if...", as far as these changes can be understanded, having so many is a bit overwhelming...

Thing is, if you all agreed on the nerfs, it's obviously for a reason, I still haven't played Zyra yet, while I do hope she's not an easywin lane with no fallback late game for losing it (rarely), I hope it's not the same thing as Ahri, where people scape with low ammounts of HP and assassinations are way more difficult to pull off.


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Purona

Senior Member

08-07-2012

these nerfs are way to much

at 600 ap her plants attack with an interval of .800 at a damage of 126 at 4 plants
currently her plants will do 126+(94.5*3)=409 damage* 8 attacks 3276
thats an average of 327 Magic damage per second

this assumes that 4 plants can even live for the entire 10 seconds and that the enemy has NO magic resist

with base magic resist numbers normalized at 30 lowest base magic resist possible you are looking at a reduction to 2849 or 248 damage per second

now her plants will do
126+(63*3)=315 damage*8 attacks 2520 an average of 252 magic damage per second

including magic resist it is now reduced to 1
915 or 191 magic damage per second

thats a 33 percent decrease in max potential damage on her plants alone

and with the movement speed and cast range reductions you reduced the max range to hit some one from 1600 to 1500

also people need to stop comparing her to gragas gragas max range on his ult is 1450 including the blast


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Meru448

Recruiter

08-07-2012

can we get this kind of post for twitch? that'd be great.