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So using custom skins and custom splash arts is against the EULA now?

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Mikemaximum

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Lomar:
I find it a little curious how the thread starts out with "modification is against the EULA (and the ToS), so you might get banned!" and then it slowly creeps into "a lot of people have been banned". All without substantive support.

There's some misinformation here, so allow me, as the dude responsible for that document and the policies behind it, to clear this up a little.

There is a no-modification clause. It was there on the first day LoL launched. The no-modification clause hasn't been modified (heh) since then.

This is something pretty standard you'll see in EULA/ToS documents for most software. The objective is to give a software maker more angles to pursue hackers or other parties that are changing software in a way that harms the original maker. Copyright law (e.g. the DMCA) gives you this same exact ability, but sticking it into a contract like a EULA/ToS just gives you an additional angle of approach. But I'd go take a look at the legal documents for other commercial software you own - my guess is you're not going to find many lacking a no-mod clause.

Now that said, a legal document really exists to just create a set of potential rights. No company enforces every provision of their EULA/ToS, and they enforce to varying degrees. Different violations have different implications to the business, and there are varying costs to enforcing. You don't just push a button. Some enforcements, like takedowns of phishing sites, can take months and cost thousands. So what that means is any company, from MSFT to Google on down, is selective.

In our case, we've made a decision that custom skins/splashes aren't necessarily hurting the business. Our business is in making our players happy - the ability to custom stuff is likely what keeps certain people interested in our game, and acts as a force multiplier for other people. From that perspective, banning people is incredibly stupid. We're forcing people out of our game, and lessening the experience of other players, for no real clear benefit.

That said, it's important that we reserve our rights to defend the IP here. There may be certain custom skins (Nazi Teemo!) that we may have a legitimate problem with. And there are other modifications (Zoom hack!) that are a certifiable balance issue and need to be prevented. Custom creation will always be at your own risk - updates may break functionality, etc. But we also aren't going to just toss out arbitrary bans. It's not in our players' interests, and so it's definitely not in ours.

TLDR: No-modification clauses are standard in software EULA/ToS documents. LoL has always had one. Custom-modding is always at your own risk, but we generally don't ban for anything unless it's clearly harmful to LoL or our players. The vast majority of custom splashes/skins will NOT fall into this bucket.

I'm not aware of any, but if you believe you ARE a legitimate case of being banned solely for modification of skins/splash art, send in a support ticket with specifics and reference me in the ticket. I can promise one of two things: a) it will be corrected; or b) you'll get a good explanation why it won't be.


How you doing, Bro?
I'm going to play Brolaf JUST because of your epical response!


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Hefasto

Member

08-06-2012

Lomar one questions

if someone change official splash art with the one from Chinese LoL client by using this method: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1976480 (RAF manager + pack of Chinese splash art, and loading screens)

then this person will be permabaned or not?

Say it clear so people can a least have prof when someone gets banned for this.


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judgeshowtunes

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
lomar:
i find it a little curious how the thread starts out with "modification is against the eula (and the tos), so you might get banned!" and then it slowly creeps into "a lot of people have been banned". All without substantive support.

There's some misinformation here, so allow me, as the dude responsible for that document and the policies behind it, to clear this up a little.

There is a no-modification clause. It was there on the first day lol launched. The no-modification clause hasn't been modified (heh) since then.

This is something pretty standard you'll see in eula/tos documents for most software. The objective is to give a software maker more angles to pursue hackers or other parties that are changing software in a way that harms the original maker. Copyright law (e.g. The dmca) gives you this same exact ability, but sticking it into a contract like a eula/tos just gives you an additional angle of approach. But i'd go take a look at the legal documents for other commercial software you own - my guess is you're not going to find many lacking a no-mod clause.

Now that said, a legal document really exists to just create a set of potential rights. No company enforces every provision of their eula/tos, and they enforce to varying degrees. Different violations have different implications to the business, and there are varying costs to enforcing. You don't just push a button. Some enforcements, like takedowns of phishing sites, can take months and cost thousands. So what that means is any company, from msft to google on down, is selective.

In our case, we've made a decision that custom skins/splashes aren't necessarily hurting the business. Our business is in making our players happy - the ability to custom stuff is likely what keeps certain people interested in our game, and acts as a force multiplier for other people. From that perspective, banning people is incredibly stupid. We're forcing people out of our game, and lessening the experience of other players, for no real clear benefit.

That said, it's important that we reserve our rights to defend the ip here. There may be certain custom skins (nazi teemo!) that we may have a legitimate problem with. And there are other modifications (zoom hack!) that are a certifiable balance issue and need to be prevented. Custom creation will always be at your own risk - updates may break functionality, etc. But we also aren't going to just toss out arbitrary bans. It's not in our players' interests, and so it's definitely not in ours.

Tldr: No-modification clauses are standard in software eula/tos documents. Lol has always had one. Custom-modding is always at your own risk, but we generally don't ban for anything unless it's clearly harmful to lol or our players. The vast majority of custom splashes/skins will not fall into this bucket.

I'm not aware of any, but if you believe you are a legitimate case of being banned solely for modification of skins/splash art, send in a support ticket with specifics and reference me in the ticket. I can promise one of two things: A) it will be corrected; or b) you'll get a good explanation why it won't be.


lawyer'd!

:d


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Seth Lightheart

Senior Member

08-06-2012

I'm VERY glad to hear this. This was an issue that was seriously making me upset.... (Upset enough to bump this post over and over for the past 3 days >.&gt

I guess its time to reinstall my skins!

Ha! No more ugly Eve skin!


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NamKim

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Lomar:
I find it a little curious how the thread starts out with "modification is against the EULA (and the ToS), so you might get banned!" and then it slowly creeps into "a lot of people have been banned". All without substantive support.

There's some misinformation here, so allow me, as the dude responsible for that document and the policies behind it, to clear this up a little.

There is a no-modification clause. It was there on the first day LoL launched. The no-modification clause hasn't been modified (heh) since then.

This is something pretty standard you'll see in EULA/ToS documents for most software. The objective is to give a software maker more angles to pursue hackers or other parties that are changing software in a way that harms the original maker. Copyright law (e.g. the DMCA) gives you this same exact ability, but sticking it into a contract like a EULA/ToS just gives you an additional angle of approach. But I'd go take a look at the legal documents for other commercial software you own - my guess is you're not going to find many lacking a no-mod clause.

Now that said, a legal document really exists to just create a set of potential rights. No company enforces every provision of their EULA/ToS, and they enforce to varying degrees. Different violations have different implications to the business, and there are varying costs to enforcing. You don't just push a button. Some enforcements, like takedowns of phishing sites, can take months and cost thousands. So what that means is any company, from MSFT to Google on down, is selective.

In our case, we've made a decision that custom skins/splashes aren't necessarily hurting the business. Our business is in making our players happy - the ability to custom stuff is likely what keeps certain people interested in our game, and acts as a force multiplier for other people. From that perspective, banning people is incredibly stupid. We're forcing people out of our game, and lessening the experience of other players, for no real clear benefit.

That said, it's important that we reserve our rights to defend the IP here. There may be certain custom skins (Nazi Teemo!) that we may have a legitimate problem with. And there are other modifications (Zoom hack!) that are a certifiable balance issue and need to be prevented. Custom creation will always be at your own risk - updates may break functionality, etc. But we also aren't going to just toss out arbitrary bans. It's not in our players' interests, and so it's definitely not in ours.

TLDR: No-modification clauses are standard in software EULA/ToS documents. LoL has always had one. Custom-modding is always at your own risk, but we generally don't ban for anything unless it's clearly harmful to LoL or our players. The vast majority of custom splashes/skins will NOT fall into this bucket.

I'm not aware of any, but if you believe you ARE a legitimate case of being banned solely for modification of skins/splash art, send in a support ticket with specifics and reference me in the ticket. I can promise one of two things: a) it will be corrected; or b) you'll get a good explanation why it won't be.


Hello, thank you for your wall of text. I actually enjoy reading walls of text from Rioters because it shows that Riot does care enough to take time to write this down. I am not being sarcastic, I wrote several walls of texts before and it is very time consuming.

But just in case I did not fully understand what you said, allow me to present an example.

Say I suddenly fell in love with Amumu and I want to use a skin to increase my positive experience with the game. However, my favorite Amumu skin, Spider Amumu, is a custom only skin and is not offered by Riot. If I decided to use a mod and install Spider Amumu, Riot would not ban me just because I decided to use the Spider Amumu skin. Although custom mods may be against the ToS, since I am not offending anyone, Riot would "let this slide."

However, if I was to suddenly fall in love with Teemo and got a "Nazi Teemo" skin. I would be possibly face punishment since I am using something that can offend others.

Of course, I know that what you say may not necessarily reflect what Riot feels and Riot does have the right to change their minds at any moments. But in your opinion and currently understanding of Riot's position on the matter, am I right in my example?


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Lomar

Associate Producer

08-06-2012

Quote:
NamKim:
Hello, thank you for your wall of text. I actually enjoy reading walls of text from Rioters because it shows that Riot does care enough to take time to write this down. I am not being sarcastic, I wrote several walls of texts before and it is very time consuming.

But just in case I did not fully understand what you said, allow me to present an example.

Say I suddenly fell in love with Amumu and I want to use a skin to increase my positive experience with the game. However, my favorite Amumu skin, Spider Amumu, is a custom only skin and is not offered by Riot. If I decided to use a mod and install Spider Amumu, Riot would not ban me just because I decided to use the Spider Amumu skin. Although custom mods may be against the ToS, since I am not offending anyone, Riot would "let this slide."

However, if I was to suddenly fall in love with Teemo and got a "Nazi Teemo" skin. I would be possibly face punishment since I am using something that can offend others.

Of course, I know that what you say may not necessarily reflect what Riot feels and Riot does have the right to change their minds at any moments. But in your opinion and currently understanding of Riot's position on the matter, am I right in my example?


So unless I've missed the boat - custom skins are still only viewable by you and you alone, right? If you're keeping an offensive skin to yourself, it would be hard for us to know about it. I'm more concerned with shutting down the creators (or more importantly public distribution) of such things.

About the only cases I can think of where USING an offensive skin would get you in trouble involves behaving incredibly derpy on the side.

Scenario 1: You roll with a Nazi skin, and start talking about the skin and how you hate Jews, etc. That should catch you a ban either way.

Scenario 2: You YouTube/stream it. Maybe the video just gets pulled down - maybe if we can tie to an account we discipline, I don't know how it would resolve, but it's possible.

The First Amendment doesn't apply to private companies except on a very narrow wedge of issues. The right to spout hate speech isn't one of them =)


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Tetris Chemist

Member

08-06-2012

wait, so we can't do clientside things>?
what if I want phreak dancing on my log in screen, will I get banned for wanting to see that wonder in all it's glory every time i log in>?


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Darkness4910

Recruiter

08-06-2012

To get this clear - Are we allowed to use LoL Replay?


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NamKim

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Lomar:
So unless I've missed the boat - custom skins are still only viewable by you and you alone, right? If you're keeping an offensive skin to yourself, it would be hard for us to know about it. I'm more concerned with shutting down the creators (or more importantly public distribution) of such things.

About the only cases I can think of where USING an offensive skin would get you in trouble involves behaving incredibly derpy on the side.

Scenario 1: You roll with a Nazi skin, and start talking about the skin and how you hate Jews, etc. That should catch you a ban either way.

Scenario 2: You YouTube/stream it. Maybe the video just gets pulled down - maybe if we can tie to an account we discipline, I don't know how it would resolve, but it's possible.

The First Amendment doesn't apply to private companies except on a very narrow wedge of issues. The right to spout hate speech isn't one of them =)


Ah, thank you. I looked into custom skins before and thought it could only be viewed by the person who installed it. But I must have mis-read something you said that made me think otherwise. I apologize.

But thank you for clearing this up for me. I really appreciate it.


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Lomar

Associate Producer

08-06-2012

Quote:
Darkness4910:
To get this clear - Are we allowed to use LoL Replay?


It's at your own risk.

To my knowledge we've never banned someone for just using LoL Replay's normal functionality.