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Zyra bans...

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ObscureClockwork

Senior Member

08-05-2012

she has way low risk for what she can do


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Coltaine00

Senior Member

08-05-2012

The big thing with her IMHO is her one combo -

Land your E, then Q, smash W x2 before your Q pops.


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Truckerchu

Senior Member

08-05-2012

so whens the fizz buff?


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Frychikn

Senior Member

08-05-2012

zyras already been stealth nerfed.

not saying shes not really strong right now. but the nerfs definitely put her on a different level, not being able to Q WW to make 2 plants is huge, and the delay on damage for her ult is very very noticeable.

she probably needs nerfs but i hope theyre not too drastic

also buff ziggs hes pretty much trash tier :/


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Frychikn

Senior Member

08-05-2012

i mean theres alot of dumb champs that u guys dont do anything about....

Like ap yi.. how the hell are u supposed to shut him down in lane? he gets free pokes farms incredibly easily, has retarded sustain, and is hard to gank.

so really why does ap yi exist?


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Aseion

Member

08-05-2012

Regarding Zyra, I ran the numbers and she has the easiest to hit, hard hitting harass in the game.

Comparing her to lux who has a somewhat similar skillset (Skillshot bind, AoE damage, high damage nuke on ulti)

For between 145-155 mana in the early game, she can very easily take off 60%+ of the lane opponent's health.

From level 3-5, her EWWQ combo deals:

E: 60(+.5) and roots
Q: 75-155(+.6) and summons 2 plants that deal

26+(18-30)+(.2) and 75% that from the second plant. If you get hit by the snare, you're going to eat 2-3 attacks from every plant. At that point, the EQ damage is taking off 30% of your health which isn't a particularly large amount, it's pretty similar to getting hit by a lux bind+E. Where the imbalance comes in is the damage coming from the plants. Every wave of attacks does more damage than lux's passive damage and doesn't require Zyra to get within range of retaliation and more importantly, even if she is in range to get retaliated on, the plant damage is going to win the fight for her since at no point can you ever sit there eating the plants while zyra's autoattacking you. You HAVE to run out since the plants are dealing more damage than annie's tibbers.

Her autoattack animation is also way too good considering that she's 575 range. Think back to pre-nerf kennen with 575 range. His autoattack animation was slow, with good reason, because his harass was so strong. All the 600+range champions that aren't AD's have slow animations. Anivia, Zilean, Annie, old Kennen etc. Either her range should be normalized to 550 or even shorter at 525, or her animation is made slower. Her ability to get off free harass is literally better than Annie. The MS nerf is going to help with this but I don't think it'll be enough.

The other problem I see is that positioning in lane does not help at all against her snare. Against lux/morgana. If you just stand behind your minions or some minions, you're completely safe against getting bound. Against Zyra, there is NO place in lane except far away where you're safe from her snare. I understand that it does less damage/snares for shorter periods of time than either but her followup burst is higher and arguably easier to hit.

Alleviating this would change the gameplay style that has evolved for her but is pretty needed. Either lower the speed at which it travels to compensate for the travel through many champions, lower the speed of the skillshot upon hitting enemies (example starts at 1400, hits minion, goes down to 1100, hits another minion, goes down to 800 down to a cap of 500). Another possible change is that the damage and snare duration goes down by 20% per target it hits down to 40%, similar to most lineshots from AD carries.

There should also be a cost to plant creation/seed creation. Not anything serious but somewhere around 10-15 mana/seed, an additional 10-15 mana to summon the plant. Enough so that the spamming of plants isn't as viable since you pretty much HAVE to wait until the plants get low from minions as their range is large enough (feels longer than 550) to hurt the common mid APs whenever they try to auto down the plant.


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TheWheatOne

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Quote:
Morello:
Is still a niche counter-pick toplane.


Please. Please tell me of one successful team that used him in any role, no matter how far-niche it is, in the past half year. I've never ever seen him played in professional matches where big money is on the line (let alone contribute positively in his supposed role as a counter-top lane pick). And even outside, I've only seen one person in the high scores have him as a top-3 pick. All others have used him less than 4 times in their entire careers in competitive accounts. The numbers and recorded videos don't lie. Look through it all yourself.