Zyra bans...

First Riot Post
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hi im ran

Member

08-03-2012

Trundle was never nerfed.


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tsowrathful

Senior Member

08-03-2012

Only problem I have vs. Zyra is her ultimate.

It's just... Max damage, with max range, max AoE, max CC. Her ulti is the only real problem I see on her.


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Aemys

Senior Member

08-03-2012

For Morello, some points:

- The AP ratios on her abilities are fine, and in line with similar abilities from other champions. Her Q is actually weaker than a Cassiopeia Q because of its scaling, but match it with hits from her plants and it's still in line with Cassiopeia getting off a few Es after landing Q.Her E at .5 is fine.

- The mid-game scaling on her plants and passive could use a nerf (the nerf on multiple plants hitting the same target is moving in the right direction... maybe they do a tad bit less damage for consecutive shots? So as their health bar declines, they do a bit less damage? Not a huge amount less, but it's worth a shot)

- The number one thing that made Zyra broken is when you gave her inherent 20% CDR. With blue buff and masteries, she has full CDR just by getting W to rank 5 (usually at level 18 for most Zyra players). Now, WHAT DID THIS DO?

Well, it means that you don't need to build CDR on Zyra. Ever. Just by reaching level 18 and having blue buff, you have full CDR. That means that you can spam your abilities like nobody's business (plants and roots coming out all the time, making her play like a Cassiopeia w/ spammable harass). Before she had this CDR (and I remember it from playing her on PBE), Zyra players had a choice to make: either build CDR and sacrifice some damage to be able to spam for utility and sustained damage, or build full damage items and manage the use of your spells better (with the obvious tradeoff of better damage). You can build RoA/Rylai's/Deathcap/Void Staff/Zhonya's/Sorcerer Boots and know that just by hitting level 18 and having blue buff (which is likely since you're probably the mid mage), you'll be able to spam your abilities as if you were Cassiopeia.

By removing the 20% CDR, Zyra players will have to manage the use of their abilities in teamfights better (versus spamming with no fear of cooldowns) and build their full damage items, or build CDR and go more of the way of a utility mage.

You said a while ago that she's a combo mage, kind of like Anivia. Giving her so much CDR inherently (and thus the ability to spam, as I have mentioned) makes her a combo mage with Anivia burst on a very short cooldown. THAT is why she is broken.

tl;dr: From someone who loves Zyra, all she needs is readjustment on her mid-game scaling and for you to get rid of that 20% CDR on her W. If she's going to be a combo mage, don't give her the ability to spam that combo like a sustained DPS champion like Cassiopeia.


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Loup Noir

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Senior Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by seresibyl View Post
Her R is obviously way too huge and has way too high base damage compared to other ults. She also didn't really need the extra burst from it being front loaded.

Her E range is ridiculously and deceptively long. Her Q burst is fine alone -- it's when you add in the extra 250 damage from the pets hitting you after it that it's ridiculous.

Her auto attack animation and base damage are really high; easy enough to nerf.


Anyways, I will go back to this -- The pet zoning is annoying. But AGAIN -- the pets are not providing any extra gameplay to her or exciting mechanics. They are providing free cheese damage. They are not fun to play against or to play with.

Her Passive just adds to the frustration =p.

She's not a fun champ by any means -- except by power.
1.) Her E (the snare) is actually shorter range than Morgana's AND Lux's snares. So I see no problem with range. Especially when you add in the fact that the duration of Zyra's is much shorter.

2.) What other Ults are you comparing it to?? Because Ziggs also has a very similar Ult that does WAY more base damage and is similar in size... hmmm,

3.)Comparing her to Lux again: Her autoattack has the exact same base damage and less scaling per level. :/

Lastly, I think she is an extremely fun champion to play and I guarantee many people agree with me. This just sounds like a poorly formed rant.... Zyra is unique and fun, admittedly a little overpowered, but not for the reasons you have listed.


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DMG1

Senior Member

08-03-2012

I'm salty that, for fighting purposes, her plants almost completely outclass Heimerdinger turrets (his turrets have some plus sides. Pushing towers, being able to farm waves or bushmongle, shredding resistances etc)

1. Better AP ratio and better base scaling

2. Melee hits have the slow (he has to ult to get that) and the range hits auto target champions while Heimer's turrets are more defensive and only prioritize champs if they attack him.

3. Her kit allows her to FORCE people to eat the damage. There's no way to "force" people to eat Heimer turret damage unless you have an initiator or catch them by surprise in a bush/similar. Snare or Ult into plants. You can't just lob a grenade, expect that poor little thing to stun, and then turret rape them.

4. No mana cost on the seed and free CDR, along with shorter CD than his turrets and can plant seeds further away.

Zyra's kit, minus plants, doesn't look too bad honestly. Her base damage and AP ratios are not out of line with other casters. I think her mana costs are too low: both her nukes scale each level by 5 mana, while most mage spells scale by 10 mana minimum per level, and her ult mana cost is also a bit low.

But it's her ability to fairly reliably land that damage, along with plants near instantly, that make her a bit silly. She's literally holding people in place, throwing out decent nukes, AND adding pet/turret damage that's literally stronger than what Heimerdinger can do. If Heimer could lock you down for even just a solid second to 2 seconds, and have turrets fire down upon you with ease, I bet you'd see some complaints lol. That's what she does. Locking people down as a mage is fine, but you guys goofed when it came to what happens ONCE they get locked down. Cause eating a Snare, 1-2 plants potentially an ult and a Q or two... is a lot. Even mini combos like Snare Seed Q can chunk bars without wiping out tons of mana.


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stihgnob

Senior Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by S0T0 View Post
Needed nerf's incoming.

WERE
DE
FUQ
IS
TEH
HEIMERDINGER
BUFF
?
^ this


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Nyxiah

Junior Member

08-03-2012

Shes one of the most balanced "new" champions released....she doesn't need nerfed people need to learn to play better....


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XElement

Senior Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Zyra is really, really, really strong.
Is it ironic for the nerf master to nerf his first and only creation?


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Heartlis

Senior Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamLeviathan View Post
PBE testing didn't seem to get a good idea of balance, huh? I could have sworn I saw threads complaining that she felt underpowered.
and then she was buffed before release


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Krimson62

Senior Member

08-03-2012

You said she was meant to be played as an intelligent rewarding trap style utility champion. but zyra ended up being a low skillcap burst mage. did you expect this to happen when she was being created? or was it just something unforeseen that players started doing.

Do you intend on working things around fixing that? or just her numbers?