Zyra bans...

First Riot Post
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Im Contributing

Senior Member

08-03-2012

One thing I really disagree on is the hate for Zyra (yes, some of her ratios are a bit high, etc.) when a few champions *cough* Xin Zhao *cough* can deal somewhat of a hellstorm of However, I'd like to say that if you lowered the plants from 4 to 3, allowed zyra to be able to hold 3 seeds, lowered Q and E (just the skill so she can keep the unique minion feel) burst ratios, and lowered the bonus attack speed % from 25% to 20 or 15 percent on her ultimate, you may get something where you'd want her to be. She has a lot of utility, but very little ways to escape if she gets ganked or caught out of position. In my opinion, she's better off than where Ahri was when she came out. Her ultimate is still frustrating to deal with sometimes.

Playing Zyra mid quite frequently, I'd like to say most of the games I lose my lane is against non traditional mids (my latest game I went against a mundo who literally poked with Q harass [those things hurt really bad btw >_>] and waited to ulti til his hp got low to go and recover... Also Xin Zhao tower dove me at level 9 and did over 800 damage to me in 4 seconds.)

To add another note, you should see where Diana is. Quite a bit more broken in some cases of damage with CC at least. :P


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Man Mode Scot

Senior Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Is still a niche counter-pick toplane.

I know "calling out one example from Morello" makes you look like the cool kid, but it's probably better if we just have reasonable discussions :P
Morello come play with me for my 1000th win right nows


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Meru448

Senior Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Our goal with nerfs is to nerf power while retaining fun. This has been of growing importance this year, which is why I think a lot of our recent nerfs have kept characters more fun afterwards.
care to make a comment on twitch then?

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2375167

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...1#post27805469


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iluvzp0tz

Member

08-03-2012

i guess some people havent heard of gragas or vlad


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seresibyl

Senior Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Is still a niche counter-pick toplane.

I know "calling out one example from Morello" makes you look like the cool kid, but it's probably better if we just have reasonable discussions :P
Okay so here's what it is.

The plants aren't interesting. They're annoying to fight against. They don't provide and feel good awesome moments for Zyra -- they provide 'why are these plants hitting me for so much damage that it's not worth trying to attack Zyra because they hurt me more than they hurt her'. It's the way they function that sucks. You should probably have made them just like Exploding extra damage things rather than turrets.

Her R is obviously way too huge and has way too high base damage compared to other ults. She also didn't really need the extra burst from it being front loaded.

Her E range is ridiculously and deceptively long. Her Q burst is fine alone -- it's when you add in the extra 250 damage from the pets hitting you after it that it's ridiculous.

Her auto attack animation and base damage are really high; easy enough to nerf.


Anyways, I will go back to this -- The pet zoning is annoying. But AGAIN -- the pets are not providing any extra gameplay to her or exciting mechanics. They are providing free cheese damage. They are not fun to play against or to play with.

Her Passive just adds to the frustration =p.

She's not a fun champ by any means -- except by power.


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Loup Noir

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Senior Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostStalker86 View Post
I've actually been countering Zyra all day with my favorite champions.

Viktor (He can poke her from afar very hard, and if she is good at dodging the laser, i can destroy her plants and minions at the same time).

Ziggs (He zones her out hard, his harass forces her to lose last hits)

Haven't played any other AP mids against her yet.
You must have been playing some pretty awful Zyra's then... Both of those champs have no push and no mobility which makes her snare a perfect counter. Plus, a good Zyra should be laying down her seeds after she casts a spell so that you can't dodge the plant nor step on the seed.


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ZzShy

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Senior Member

08-03-2012

I really dont think Zyra is that OP, and if she does deserve nerfs the only thing that I think might need a bit of a nerf is her ult. I think Ahri, Gragas, and Vlad, and maybe Kennen and Morg are better.


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Lambant

Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by seresibyl View Post
Okay so here's what it is.

The plants aren't interesting. They're annoying to fight against. They don't provide and feel good awesome moments for Zyra -- they provide 'why are these plants hitting me for so much damage that it's not worth trying to attack Zyra because they hurt me more than they hurt her'. It's the way they function that sucks. You should probably have made them just like Exploding extra damage things rather than turrets.

Her R is obviously way too huge and has way too high base damage compared to other ults. She also didn't really need the extra burst from it being front loaded.

Her E range is ridiculously and deceptively long. Her Q burst is fine alone -- it's when you add in the extra 250 damage from the pets hitting you after it that it's ridiculous.

Her auto attack animation and base damage are really high; easy enough to nerf.


Anyways, I will go back to this -- The pet zoning is annoying. But AGAIN -- the pets are not providing any extra gameplay to her or exciting mechanics. They are providing free cheese damage. They are not fun to play against or to play with.

Her Passive just adds to the frustration =p.

She's not a fun champ by any means -- except by power.
Ok, I'm not trying to be rude, but do you honestly feel like tweeking everything you just mentioned is going to balance her? "Oh we can nerf her e's range, her plants' damage, her ultimate's damage/range and her ability to last hit," you honestly think that nerfing each of those components wouldn't cause her to drop out of viability?

I understand that laning against new champs can be incredibly aggravating, but destroying every aspect of their kit isn't a reasonable fix to anything. In fact, asking for certain elements like Zyra's plant mechanics to be nerfed, or claiming that they're annoying or make her "not fun to play..." just discourages the devs from venturing into the creation of more mechanics. That means we'd lose out on new styles of play such as Zyra, Draven, Jayce etc, and have to deal with things like Mundo's Burning Agony, Shyvana's Burnout, and Sejuani's Northern Winds on more and more champions.

Also, please don't speak for everyone as far as how fun a champ can be, personally I find the management of her plants much more fulfilling than when I play mid as Morg and spam tormented soil for twenty minutes to farm.


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Void Wulord

Senior Member

08-03-2012

Didn't want to waste space on the front page and well noticed morello in this thread. Will we get a patch preview tonight with the thoughts on zyra because lets be honest your baby is the talk of the town.


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Gallant Spike

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Senior Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzShy View Post
I really dont think Zyra is that OP, and if she does deserve nerfs the only thing that I think might need a bit of a nerf is her ult. I think Ahri and Vlad, and maybe Kennen and Morg are better.
Maybe not in pubs, but professionals dominate games more games with her simply because her spells have incredible range for the damage they deal.

Her seedlings also give her team a free 30 second ward every few seconds which turn into damaging plants when Zyra casts spells on them. This is known to be problematic because the only way you can get rid of her seedlings is by stepping on them, which gives her insane zone control along with her ultimate which, with Ryali's slow, produces insane crowd control on multiple enemies.

It takes a while to realize it but with good management and zone control with her abilities a fed Zyra can just cripple entire enemy teams.