The true evolution

First Riot Post
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Darigac

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Member

08-03-2012

I have messed around with Viktor a little bit, but am by no means an avid player. I will go through his abilities, give pros and cons and say how I might change each one.
Passive:
Pros:
- Has a really cool idea (you get to change what your character is in the middle of the game)
- Gives him scaling AP (the only champ to have this)
Cons:
- Does not really provide choice (the death augment is too powerful to not choose)
- Not enough variety between the choices. This ability has the potential to be really impactful and cool, but none of the augments really change how Viktor plays significantly. In their current form, one makes him slightly tankier, one makes him have slightly more utility, and one makes him do more damage. While this is cool, there needs to be more of differentiation between the decisions, so that there is no clear best option for all games and play styles (like there is now)
Solution:
The way I would change the augments is to make a shift in Viktor’s design philosophy. Right now, it seems that the philosophy was to make a champion that had 3 different modes that he could take in the game. I think for the concept of “choose your play style in the middle of the game” to work, you need to have the goal of making 3 different champions that all revolve around one of the spells. If you actually had 3 different champions with the same lore, but with vastly different play styles (AP bruiser, support and Mage) and had the choice of augment change which of these Viktor played as, the choice would feel much more substantial. Right now, the choice is ”what stats do you want for your damage dealing mage”. With this choice, you only really get to choose the death augment, and then itemize for tankiness if you need it.
This would be the most substantial of the changes I have listed for Viktor. In order for this passive to feel really cool, you would have to fundamentally change how the character works. I think that you could really make it feel cool by adding a ton of functionality to the spell that is augmented. Maybe move the shield on his Q to the augment. Maybe give the gravity a HoT for his teammates that were inside it. Adding an extra source of damage to the death ray actually works well for this goal already. These are just some basic ideas that could be worked with, though I admit to giving them less thought than the other changes.

Power Transfer:
Pros
- Is a great ability for teamfights
- gives tankiness and damage
- has the cool gameplay of hitting minions to get a shield when you are in trouble (eg if you are getting ganked and don’t want to hit the people chasing you).
Cons
- Feels terrible in lane trades. By the time the shield has come back, you have already taken damage and have left, making the shield worthless.
- The range feels really bad, especially in the trading scenario. It has the minimum range for single target nukes in the game (600 according to lol wiki which is only matched by Janna’s W), which means that you will always take damage when you use it to trade in lane.
Solution:
This skill is really hard to balance. On the one hand, you could increase the missile speed or increase the range to make the shield portion feel impactful. This would be great for Viktor players, but would feel terrible to lane against. Any time you traded, it would feel like you were doing nothing, since you would always take damage and the Viktor would always have the shield to block your nuke.
I think that there are a couple things that you could try with this spell. You could try giving him part of the shield when he casts the spell and part when the particle returns (like Lux). This would keep the gameplay in teamfights and longer skirmishes, while also feeling useful in trades.
Another option might be to attach the shield portion of the spell to his augment of the ability. You would probably need more functionality on the base version of the spell (since something that is just a single target nuke with nothing else feels really lame. Ryze, Annie and Anivia all have something that feels synergistic with their nukes). Perhaps make it shred MR or something like that? The advantage of this second solution is that you have to invest heavily in making him tankier, instead of him just getting it for free. This would also let you increase the range and damage on the spell to make it better for harassing in lane.
The problem with both of these solutions is that they both lose the flavor of “steal their power to give me a short term gain” that his current spell has. I think that you would have to rename the spell and give it a new identity if you made either of these changes.

Gravity Field
Pros:
- Is really powerful for zone denial and chasing.
- Is useful for escaping ganks
- Feels really good when it is used effectively
- Is really good when combined with other stuns.
Cons:
- Is really ineffective when used aggressively, but feels like it should be good. It is really hard to hit this spell in lane, where you really want to hit it to let you hit a guaranteed ult and E.
- The cooldown is really long on this ability. For other area denial spells (swain, cass) you are encouraged to try using it to be aggressive and to attempt to initiate fights. This spell’s range coupled with its cooldown (both at early ranks and max rank) make it feel really bad.
Solution:
This spell is again really hard to balance. If you make it too useable in terms of cooldown and range, you run the risk of making him overpowered. There is so much potential for CC with this ability that it is really hard to get right (44% slow and 1.5 second stun is a lot). I would probably lower the power level of this ability (probably by lowering the slow) and give it a range boost and a lower cooldown. People want to throw this spell out a lot while playing him and the spell should facilitate that.

Death ray:
Pros:
- Powerful wave clearing and poke
- Good damage
- Has potential to hit many targets in teamfights
Cons:
- Awkward targeting system, especially for smartcast users. Rumble’s ult feels a lot better in this regard because of the large AOE and the extended range. Basically, it is really hard to miss Rumble’s ult and really easy to miss Viktor’s E.
- Buggy as hell. This skill has invisible particles, often shoots in the opposite direction of where you mean to aim it (especially with smart cast) and has a really finicky hit box.
- is really frustrating to play against. Especially when the particle doesn’t show up, but even when it does, the laser does not really communicate where the damage is coming from. The idea of him drawing a line on the field is really cool, but the fact that the thing on the ground hurts you and not the laser that he uses to draw it is really counter-intuitive.
Solution:
I think that this spell is basically where it needs to be. You are firing a laser at people and the get hurt by it, which is a pretty simple and easy to communicate. The skill also feels good for wave clearing and is cool to hit in teamfights. The problems with this spell are all in the execution of the ability. If the bugs are fixed, and the targeting is changed to make it more natural, the skill should be fine.

Chaos Storm
Pros:
- Deals tons of damage
- Gives Viktor a lot of impact in teamfights
- Has really cool flavor (since it is basically Blitzcrank’s ult, being that Viktor created Blitz)
Cons:
- Usability. Again (as seems to be a common theme), this spell feels really unwieldy. Controlling the second body as well as Viktor’s in a teamfight is really challenging, and is what you need to do to in order to get the most damage out of the spell. Annie’s ult does not feel as bad in this regard, since you can send tibbers to attack someone and he will be relatively autonomous. Controlling a cloud in this way just doesn’t feel as natural (especially since it can’t just auto attack things).
- Visibility of impact. This spell is insanely powerful in its numbers, but nobody realizes this. It does comparable damage to Annie’s Tibbers, but it does not feel like it does. While Annie drops a giant freaking bear on your head, Viktor just sort of puts a cloud on top of you. The particles for this spell are fairly underwhelming, and it just doesn’t feel that good. A spell that is this powerful should feel powerful.
Solution:
I would completely re-work this skill. I really like the flavor that it has, but I think that controlling a stormcloud is a really weird flavor for the skill to have. If Viktor was more like Janna in terms of premise (aka. a storm mage), this would make more sense. As is, it seems really weird and hacked together. I know that the goal was to basically summon a mini Blitz that would stand by your enemies, but the trade-offs made for this spell just makes it feel way too clunky.
I think that the solution is to make the spell feel more impactful and to make it less clunky by removing the controllable pet part of it. My idea would be to make it a larger AOE (because big things are easier to see the impact of) balance the initial damage to reflect the size and then have the cloud linger and deal damage over time in the area. This keeps the same flavor of it being a Blitz ult, keeps the fact that he can use it as a big area denial spell and makes the spell more useable overall. You lose some of the unique parts of the skill, but those unique parts are what make the skill feel worse overall.

Closing notes
I think that Viktor’s main problems come from his usability and how his skills show up graphically. I think that if you give him some usability changes and make his spells feel as powerful as they are, he could definitely be a fun, interesting champion.


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Tipou

Junior Member

08-03-2012

I loved viktor style, but he felt a bit empty, let me explain :

1. His Q damage output is really great, but the shield isn't that great, because you have to get closer to the hero to activate it. I would have liked a bit more range and a different bonus then a shield (or a shield with a normal base instead of a damage %)

2. His W stun is really good, but the range (greatly improved by his augment so that is just fine) and ''upgrading or uping'' it first seems useless (apart from the cooldown reduction). It slows more? the trick with it is that you want the enemies to be stuned in it. Maybe add an armor or magic resist reduction while enemies are inside or any other kind of ''advantage'' that viktor would get to ''trap'' his rivals inside.

3. His E, still glitchy and sometimes hard to aim, the damage is great, augment is also great (30% more damage) but the range and angle can be really hard to place (In comparaison to lets say Xerath, which is one of my favorite too, can have a greater range and even initial range while being easy to cast since it is a straight line) I would propose, keep the same maximum range on his E but make the lazer initial point casted way more farther (but not able to get past the maximum limit)

4. His R is just fine (great damage and all)

5. His auto attack seems to have an initial delay which he should not have.

Overall great hero but seems a bit blank when you think about him (always get the death augment because the others are less usefull) and maybe while we are at it, he could be more ''techno evolutionary''

Thanks for reading my post and have a good day.


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LunarisDream

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Senior Member

08-03-2012

I just didn't bother with Viktor. He seems to have a quite high skill cap, is 6300 IP (which I only spend to buy champs that I really like), and doesn't have the ROFLstomping capability that other AP carries have (say, Cass or Kennen)..


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Stolstice

Senior Member

08-03-2012

Viktor is loads of fun and I love his theming; all of his abilities seem like they belong. Love the feel of his laser, ult, and gravity feel. I wish his hex core game play was more fleshed out. I think it would be cool if his hexcore actually had an active based on which path you upgrade. If not, then atleast diversify the various upgrades so that he feels and plays drastically different based on path.


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Sunshine Punch

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Senior Member

08-03-2012

I decided to play viktor relentlessly about a week after release. I practiced the champion nonstop, experimenting with different augments against different opponents and scrimming against friends to get advice. Here are some conclusions I've drawn about him.
A) His only useful augment at the moment is the deathray. You essentially spend 1k gold to get a deathcap for your E. That heavily outweighs the other augments viability as you become able to farm entire waves with a single spell, heavily outharass your opponent, and even excel at countering ganks with a well timed W R E combo. If the other augments are to become viable, his deathray needs a rework to be less cost effective.
B) The fun of Viktor in lane comes from using the laser to zone your opponent. His Q is really useful for absorbing minor harass and set up trades that Viktor wins heavily. Viktor has incredibly strong lane presence due to his range and offensive/defensive capabilities with his W. Any augment changes should try to expand upon that playstyle of zoning and dominating trades.
C) Once laning ends, Viktor becomes similar to other AoE mages in the threat and damage he is capable of dealing. Again the problem with his other two augments is that his W augment's utility doesn't meet the raw damage his E offers, while his Q augment is almost worthless in teamfights. The minor movespeed bonus isn't a reliable enough kiting feature to make up for hitting your opponent for 30% extra damage and gaining a bunch of free AP. An augment exploring extra utility in teamfights might be really interesting to toy with, but it'd need to be better than an extra range buff to his W.

In summation, any augment redesigns should focus around the fact that the deathray offers too much damage for its cost, while the other augments offer too little utility compared to other items to be worth building. Adding a second tier for augments would def be a better way to explore balancing the powers of the augments, while straight out redesigning his Q augment would be a really good strategy. Honestly, if his Q augment buffed the range of his Q, while his W augment lengthened the area of the stun or the duration, that would already make them potentially worthwhile investments.


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Shinso Akura

Member

08-03-2012

I play Viktor a lot and here is some of the things I noticed:

His E is a very nice ability but there are numerous times where the laser would just hit the ground and it was invisible the rest of the way.

His ult is a nice ability since you can move it and it is not a pet, but unless I have a Jarvan on my time usually my ult will only be hitting the enemy team for 3 seconds before they all run away and my ult cannot keep after them.

His passive item is cool to a point, but I feel like the changes are not really changing much for him. I would like to see a second tier for him to upgrade to based on the augment he has already picked and it would change the skills even-further.


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Eletale

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Senior Member

08-03-2012

On release, Viktor was considered awful due to the long time his stunt took to porc and how you would get hit before the shield activates. The after release buffs greatly took care of those issues, and made Viktor far more powerful.
The issue with his passive, is that it's stats are not that great to take into late game. The extra health and mana you could gain are not much considering the AP from Death, which greatly outclases them.
Power is supposed to help Viktor approach an enemy, giving him the health he lacks from his natural stats, but it a meager 220 Health +6 Hp5 late game it won't help Viktor survive a short range approach. Gravity gives much needed extra range on W and the mana, CDR and mana regen are stats he greatly benefits from; the ammount given from those stats feels lackluster and could probably be replaced by other much more efficient items. Death only gives AP, but that's all it needs to give: It sinergizes perfectly with the extra damage given to Death Ray, and the ammount of damage you can achieve with that item on late game lets you build a bit more tankier to fully use Viktor's skillset, or go glass cannon and do godly ammounts of damage with a poke.
By the end of the day, people will pick Death almost all the time, except íf for some reason the special effect given by the other augments is needed, as it is clear their stats are really not.


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cthuluthegreat

Recruiter

08-03-2012

Viktor is an amazing champion and once again underestimated, ive beaten pretty much all mids except for galio. the fact that makes him amazing is that you can have more AP than other carries with no ap items by mid game which is the fact i love most about him and as long as you time it right and be patient you can easily outclass any mid champ there are times where i even out burst veigar and out farm malazhar


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Kosken

Senior Member

08-03-2012

VIktor player:

I picked him up when i was looking for new casters and got refunded for all my dodge rune IP. I was talking to my friends and they said he was underplayed and underestimated and i'm a sucker for those kinds of champs so i picked him up and do exceptionally well with him. I love his e poke (although its a bit broken right now because its invisible half the time, easy to land, hard to dodge).

It seems like theres only one augment you can take if you're trying to fit into the burst caster role on a team. I have found myself taking his q-augment when i need to be agile to dodge stuff, or run away from champions (like when hecarim first came out, i took the q-augment for the first time. Ive never taken the w-augment)

Another thing that kind of stuck in my mind was when i was talking to my friend about burst casters and he thought that viktor was OP because his slow bubble did damage. I corrected him in saying that he only has 3 damage spells, with his bubble slowing and stunning, but doing no damage. I think hes one of the few casters that isn't really played as a support that only has 3 damaging spells.

Viktor is still one of my favorite champions to play, hes a durable caster with burst and sustained damage potential. his ability to turn a game around is really amazing, and hes 100x more deserving of the pulsefire treatment, although i dont want him increasing in popularity because when i play i get comments such as "wow never seen a good viktor" and such, and i also dont want him grouped in with a champion like ez xD


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AtomicFuzz

Senior Member

08-03-2012

I love Viktor :3. Really fun champ

Favorite parts about him:
-RUSSIAN VOICE
-High burst, kind of high skill cap champion
-Fun

Parts that annoy me about him:
-His E in particular is annoying, sometimes it doesn't show the laser, and when it does show the laser, many times it seems to hit more, or less, of the area it should.
-His PASSIVE basically takes away part of your items slots