The true evolution

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exe3

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Senior Member

06-09-2013

I'm not so keen on this new idea. The way I see it what's the real difference between getting 2nd tier power and a lich bane, or a 2nd tier death and a rylai's? I don't think there is much of one thus making the whole thing redundant. But I like the direction of an upgrade that affects his whole kit rather than just a single ability, it's how I felt he should have worked in the first place, evolving his whole playstyle based on your item choice rather than just a single ability. Perhaps if you could come up with some unique passives rather than taking already existing item passives this direction could work.

Not keen on waiting till S4 for an upgrade though that's partly because I didn't like your previous idea. On paper it sounded more like KhaZix v2 than Viktor.

In regards to a second laser how crazy would it be if you could control the second portions path like the first portion?


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FA Aokiji

Member

06-09-2013

Hi Solcrushed! I felt comfortable providing my info too, after reading this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
Non-Viktor players: Have you ever even considered playing Viktor or played him in the past? If so, what turned you off Viktor/what did not meet your expectations?

Any kind of general observations/suggestions about Viktor is also welcome!
Well, what I like about Viktor:
His W is the nicest ability I think I've seen in a long time.

Stuff I liked:
1. The targeting system his E uses
2. His stunfield
3. His autoattack animation :P

Stuff I disliked:
1. The fact that his core takes up a slot without being able to resell it.
2. There was an augment that "was almost always the best" which was his E.
3. His augments could not be merged with other items or inter-merged, and were pretty stagnant and boring.
4. His Q augment would apply the Shield only after it had travelled back to him. Also, it would scale off AP when it functions like a single-target bruiser spell. This means that he gets a shield once every 5-ish seconds, but he has to throw sustained dps during that time. The rest of his kit didn't support that well enough.


I like both of your propositions. The first one is the one I originally thought of, the second one brings better utility.

About the first one: Does a system like that of upgraded boots work for the hexcores? You know, same boots with different enhancements.
Or, couldn't his passive be coded so that you can buy a 2nd tier2core in the same slot, which then upgrades to the combined hexcore?


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EnvyDragon

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Yeah, I'm honestly not too thrilled with the idea of the Hex Core being just an analog for an item we can already get on literally any other champion in the game, even if it's a cheaper alternative.

I like the direction the old Cores were going in - additional, completely new effects for a given ability - and I don't understand why that can't just be the way of things. Keep Tier 1 cores the way they are, and have Tier 2 cores add further effects - instantaneous Q shield, wider W, two-sweep E for example - or even give the option to upgrade his ult after tier 1.

Other options could include the ability to give his Hex Core active effects - a fifth spell, so to speak, based on the route you took earlier.

If Power is for TankyVik, then the Power Core could upgrade to tier 2 for better stats and the ability to project a shield, or a New-Karma-Style healing tether, or... whatever.

Similarly, Gravity (UtilityVik) could be activated to do a Syndra sort of cone-push, or some manner of slow/stun/root.

Death (DamageVik) could get a boring old AoE nuke, it's already got the best T1 power.

I dunno, just spitballing. It's a shame that the required store tech isn't available, but there's plenty of room to grow without it. Viktor's Hex Core isn't actually that terrible as-is; it just seems needlessly punishing because it's a required item that doesn't feel useful lategame. Any new addition that could give it that endgame punch would be well-received, I think.


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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Senior Member

06-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
So the iteration I'm tossing around in my head right now is something like this.

1st tier: Similar to how it currently works on live (with some effects moved around etc.)

2nd tier: Grants a flagship unique item passive (that will not stack with said item in question) among those that are currently in the item shop, while increasing stats.

For example.
Power: Liandry's
Gravity: Rylai's
Death: Lich Bane

This takes Viktor in a different direction from the previous iteration (where he became PERFECT) to more of a item master, more in the scientist-ish I would think. (The coolness factor being that Viktor will be the only one to have the passive with a unique mix of stats, for example he can have rylai's effect with CDR) What do you guys think?

p.s.: "I would prefer the previous iteration even with the wait" is also a great answer, please say so if you are more inclined in that way.
Yes, I would prefer this.

I'm guessing doing an alternative direction and then rerouting back to this direction when the tech is available, isn't an option?


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
Oh it will have to deal reduced damage if a target gets hit twice The number I was going to try out was 50% if the target had already been hit with Dray
Probably should be 35%, like Graves's Q.


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Necron99

Senior Member

06-09-2013

i like lich bane as the E
u poke them with laser and as ur closing in on them AA and Q profit....
how it goes for me most of the time
or in tankyer champs its poke with E run in AA stun field Q AA more profit
and rylas should be built like every single time any way cause if u have rylas built into one of the abilitys what are u gonna do for some hps?

the way he had it the first time is correct yellow should be a rylas proc cause then they are slowed and ur haulin butt up to them and stun pad them
where as red is all about burst e.g lich bane proc


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Temjen

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Couldn't you solve the tech issue with moving him on a Kha'zix skill system, and have a consumable item grant the "evolution point"? I'm not sure how modular your code is, but it might be able to grant the bonus skill effects of the upgrades (probably not the passive stats though).


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
Power: Liandry's
Gravity: Rylai's
Death: Lich Bane
This is going in the right direction but let me pitch in my idea.

I'd like to see the Mana Font passive put on the mana/cd augment. The problem is, I think that one should be on the Power augment instead of the Gravity for theme reasons.

Power Augment : Power Transfer increases Viktor's movement speed by 30% for 3 seconds. The item now grants him +3 ability power per level, +200 mana, +10% cooldown reduction and +5 mana regeneration.
+Power Augment+ : Mana Font - Increases your mana regeneration by 1% per 1% mana you are missing.

Gravity Augment : Gravity Field has an additional 30% cast range. The item now grants him +3 ability power per level, +220 health and +6 health regeneration.
+Gravity Augment+ : Rylai's passive


This would make the Power Augment all about lane sustain/spell spam and the Gravity Augment would be all about CC. It just seems right to me.


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shaedi123

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
So the iteration I'm tossing around in my head right now is something like this.

1st tier: Similar to how it currently works on live (with some effects moved around etc.)

2nd tier: Grants a flagship unique item passive (that will not stack with said item in question) among those that are currently in the item shop, while increasing stats.

For example.
Power: Liandry's
Gravity: Rylai's
Death: Lich Bane

This takes Viktor in a different direction from the previous iteration (where he became PERFECT) to more of a item master, more in the scientist-ish I would think. (The coolness factor being that Viktor will be the only one to have the passive with a unique mix of stats, for example he can have rylai's effect with CDR) What do you guys think?

p.s.: "I would prefer the previous iteration even with the wait" is also a great answer, please say so if you are more inclined in that way.
I really like the idea of him having the separate items and building differently depending on his situation.

i think combining all three defeats the purpose. Having different passives on each item is cool but it needs to be really good if it replaces his passive. But if he also gets a good passive, it can be 'regular good.'


Ideally his abilities should allow him to be played differently. The W one should make him a viable support maybe, and his Q could make him a tankier top laner?


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David Hume

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
So the iteration I'm tossing around in my head right now is something like this.

1st tier: Similar to how it currently works on live (with some effects moved around etc.)

2nd tier: Grants a flagship unique item passive (that will not stack with said item in question) among those that are currently in the item shop, while increasing stats.

For example.
Power: Liandry's
Gravity: Rylai's
Death: Lich Bane

This takes Viktor in a different direction from the previous iteration (where he became PERFECT) to more of a item master, more in the scientist-ish I would think. (The coolness factor being that Viktor will be the only one to have the passive with a unique mix of stats, for example he can have rylai's effect with CDR) What do you guys think?

p.s.: "I would prefer the previous iteration even with the wait" is also a great answer, please say so if you are more inclined in that way.
So Viktor's new passive is "can by 5 items + alternate universe version of one three specific items." Meanwhile, every other champ is "can buy any six items in the shop." So it's... reverse item master? Even less flexibility than everyone else?

Having to choose between passive of a given item and stats seems like it might lead to depressing choices. Like, if I want the Liandry's passive, am I going to have to choose between buying the real item and getting mpen or the augment and getting %cdr instead? If I know I need Rylai's slow, but the augment w/ slow is cheaper, but I value the HP of real Rylai's over the cdr bonus, do I buy the cheaper version earlier or buy the Liandry's augment and get real Rylai's to go with it?

Could the "other stats" at least be something more sexy than +6 HP/5 or +5 MP/5 ?