The true evolution

First Riot Post
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Kezzler

Senior Member

04-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RasCaelestis View Post
There was no necro. This thread has been going since last August. Yes, sometimes a few days passed where there were no new posts, but it never died.

On a side-note, the first time I read your comment I saw "Dat necron." instead of "Dat necro." Now I really want a Necron -or even a Techpriest- skin for Viktor. :/
Where's our dark harvester viktor? he was supposed to come out with arclight varus


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woopyfrood

Senior Member

05-01-2013

TEXT WALL INCOMING.

I like Viktor's aesthetic, it's very Doctor Doom-esque, crossed with a bit of Warhammer Adeptus Mechanicus. He sells his semi-villainous transhumanist fantasy very well.

I like the laser. It's hard to use, but it has godly poke and versatility. It makes it so you don't have to be positioned just right if your enemies line up (though you might have to get dangerously close).

I like the ult. Just generally all-around good.

Power transfer is cool in concept but not totally useful in practice. He should definitely have some kind of stat-stealing ability called Power Transfer, but the shield is kind of meh. It can save your butt on occasion, but it is largely just a single-target nuke with travel time.

Gravity Field is an amazing AoE crowd control ability, but it doesn't really mesh with his other abilities. First off, the start-up time can be a problem. Secondly, while the field can also save your butt on occasion, the hard CC isn't instant and can be avoided, meaning it's not very good for combos/panic situations like Veigar's Event Horizon is.

The Hex Core is his single biggest problem. Let us compare it to other "ability-boost" mechanics, hmm?

Kha'Zix: Takes up no slots. Permanent upgrade to selected ability upon ult level-up. 3 out of 4 options obtainable, unless the defeat of Rengar earns the 4th point.

Rengar: Replaces resource bar. After five abilities hit an enemy, a boost is granted to the next normal ability cast, and these boosted abilities do not share cooldowns with the normal ones. Option that costs money and takes up an item slot. Dependent upon kill/assist stacks for stat and ability boosts. Can be sold back.

Renekton: Replaces resource bar. Hitting with abilities or autoattacks builds resource. If the resource bar is over 50%, the next ability cast is boosted and consumes resource. Being out of combat makes resource decay.

Rumble: Replaces resource bar. Using abilities builds resource. If the resource bar is over 50%, abilities cast are boosted. Reaching max resource capacity causes self-silence and auto-attack boost as the resource bar quickly empties.

Shyvana: Replaces resource bar. Only the ultimate depends on this resource. On ultimate cast, resource bar begins to deplete, and all abilities are boosted until the resource bar decays. Autoattacking builds resource, and can thus be used to extend the ultimate.

Heimerdinger: Takes up an ultimate slot. On ultimate cast, all abilities are boosted until the duration finishes.

Ryze: Takes up an ultimate slot. On ultimate cast, all abilities are boosted until the duration finishes.

Syndra: Takes up a passive slot. Abilities are boosted upon reaching max level.

Karma: Takes up an ultimate slot. Granted at level one, but can still be leveled up. Causes the next ability used to be boosted.

LeBlanc: Takes up an ultimate. Can be leveled up. Causes the next ability used to be boosted.

Xerath: Takes up an ability slot. Becomes immobile to boost all other abilities.

Ahri: Takes up a passive slot. Hitting enemies with abilities gains charges. Once enough are obtained, the next ability cast gains spell vamp.

Brand: Takes up a passive slot. Hitting enemies with abilities inflicts the passive upon them. Abilities that hit enemies effected by the passive are boosted.

Viktor: Takes up a passive slot. Takes up an item slot. Grants AP per level. One out of 3 upgrades can be purchased to provide stats and an ability boost. Cannot be sold.

The only argument I can see for Viktor's Hex Core is that it can help carry him through the earlier parts of the game. The fact that the Hex core takes up a passive, and an item slot, and costs money to be made useful is inexcusable even if it didn't reduce his late-game potential. Many champs have ability-boosting mechanics, many more champs have stat-boosting mechanics. Viktor's dual ability and stat boosting mechanic ironically pales in comparison to all of them.

Generally speaking, Viktor has a lot of interesting abilities that mesh thematically but not mechanically. What I mean by this is that while shooting lasers, transferring power, placing gravity fields, and summoning black holes I definitely feel like a techno-mage. However, all of the abilities feel like they're from different techno-mages. Do I place down my field and hope people get stunned so I can better line up my laser? Does gaining a shield matter if my enemies are stunned and silenced anyway? Should I only use my Transfer when the enemy can actually retaliate? Which ability to use first in a given situation is often less clear than with other mages. Furthermore, the ability ranges and widths are wildly different. The passive actually reinforces all this disparity, causing two other abilities to feel underwhelming just as much as it causes one ability to feel special

Takes Malzahar, for instance. Call, Null, then ult to make sure your opponent stays in place for the the other spells. After the ult ends, visions if he hasn't died. Separately, these spells are used in different ways that all make sense and are gratifying, and the ultimate can help to tie them all together.

Viktor doesn't quite have this ergonomic approach to his abilities, which I believe is integral to all champions.


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VoidBro

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Senior Member

05-01-2013

.


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Orothrim

Senior Member

05-01-2013

When I saw this on GD I thought Solcrushed had come back and was SO excited :'(


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RasCaelestis

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orothrim View Post
When I saw this on GD I thought Solcrushed had come back and was SO excited :'(
Same here. Is it normal for a thread like this to have so few Riot posts?

But back to the original topic... As I've said previously in this thread Viktor is underplayed, but he's a fantastic Champion. Those of us that like him really want to know what -if anything- is going on with potential reworks. I personally am curious about the 'Dark Harvester Viktor' skin name that was leaked a while ago. I'm more interested in the rework, but that skin sounds so awesome I can't not mention it.


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Loosnecram

Junior Member

05-02-2013

To those of you saying his passive is bad, you don't know what you're saying.

It gives 45 AP + 3 AP per level. That's 99 AP total on a single item that also makes you laser do an additional 30% of its max damage over time. When I'm getting fed I get raw AP items usually. The highest I've seen is 720 AP on my Viktor. At max level, the laser does 250 + 70% of your AP with the Death Augment. That's roughly 750 damage. Which means is does an additional 377~ damage over three seconds after the initial damage, since it scales with 21% AP and does 75 base damage itself. Roughly 1k damage AOE.

That is, of course, without any MR on the enemies.

So yes, Death Augment is fine for doing his job: Bursting the hell out of people.

Plus it works well with Rylais and Lissandrys.

However that's only 1/3rd of his passive. The other 2/3rds is complete ****. But that 1/3rd that's good makes up for it.


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Script Lord

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loosnecram View Post
To those of you saying his passive is bad, you don't know what you're saying.

It gives 45 AP + 3 AP per level. That's 99 AP total on a single item that also makes you laser do an additional 30% of its max damage over time. When I'm getting fed I get raw AP items usually. The highest I've seen is 720 AP on my Viktor. At max level, the laser does 250 + 70% of your AP with the Death Augment. That's roughly 750 damage. Which means is does an additional 377~ damage over three seconds after the initial damage, since it scales with 21% AP and does 75 base damage itself. Roughly 1k damage AOE.

That is, of course, without any MR on the enemies.

So yes, Death Augment is fine for doing his job: Bursting the hell out of people.

Plus it works well with Rylais and Lissandrys.

However that's only 1/3rd of his passive. The other 2/3rds is complete ****. But that 1/3rd that's good makes up for it.
Yeah, no.

When only a THIRD of your passive is worthwhile then you have SERIOUS issues with a champion. That's why everyone here keeps asking for BALANCE on the passive, so that the Death Augment CEASES to be the unanimously bought upgrade.


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Solcrushed

Live Balance Designer

05-03-2013
3 of 17 Riot Posts

Hey guys, troll here.

First of all, I apologize for leaving you guys out in the dark for so long. I can cite a bunch of reasons why the Viktor thing has taken so long but I'm sure you guys don't want to hear about that.

He has not been forgotten, and I will be working on it again as soon as I return to the states next week. (Currently in Korea)

EDIT: Reading this made me realize how amazingly informing this update in X months was. So..

The current place I am at is trying to figure out how complex I want to make his upgraded Cores since he's already a very complex character (Although I am trying out a different upgrade from the leak months ago)


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AotW King

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
Hey guys, troll here.

First of all, I apologize for leaving you guys out in the dark for so long. I can cite a bunch of reasons why the Viktor thing has taken so long but I'm sure you guys don't want to hear about that.

He has not been forgotten, and I will be working on it again as soon as I return to the states next week. (Currently in Korea)

The evolution is not soon indeed.


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Maximum Viktor

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Senior Member

05-03-2013

Awesome. Would like more frequent updates on his progress when that happens.