The true evolution

First Riot Post
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YippotheClown

Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikhan View Post
I do not think I posted in this before missed it apparently.

Really my main problem with Viktor is he does not compete well against the generally more mobile champs in the game. Since most teams have at least 2 highly mobile champs it plays against his more static nature of play. He is great with an aoe team with good intiation and cc control but, that is it unless you are playing on Proving Grounds where he is very strong.

I do not think you can really change his design to combat the semi mobillity meta that has developed. His kit is strong for what it is and depending on the match ups he can carry easily.

He has one of the highest overall AP ratios but, I think this makes up for him losing an item slot. If you give him a tier 3 upgrade to his augment I imagine his ratios will have to eventually be dialed down a little.


I don't actually have too much of an issue with mobility; I find that high mobility champions tend to be in your face quite often, which makes it easy to cast the laser to start on top of them. Guaranteed hit. Combine that with your Q and W for survival and an ult at the right moment (while their dashes are down and they're all in, ideally) and you can normally do pretty well against them. Certainly more so than someone like Lux can.


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Macrofarad

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Senior Member

10-31-2012

Things I like about vik:
Log distance poke
semi beefy
Incredible zone
really fun skillshot

Things I dislike about him:
Q range seems a bit useless late game, usually not worth the mana unless you're bursting someone down (whom you usually can't even catch)
Ult is sometimes unresponsive after enemy is dead, I would like to see it move on to the nearest enemy champ if it killed the current target.
Augments should either indirectly affect his ult or have a third tier to directly affect it
Power augment seemed too slow still
Gravity augment didn't support worth beans on stats

===============A few alterations====================================

Quote:
Augment: Power: Power Transfer increases Viktor's movement speed by 20% for 3 seconds and decreases his target's by half of that. The item now grants him +3 AP per level, +4 MS per level, +220 health, 10% increased AR/MR, and +6 health regeneration per 5 seconds.
--I like the quickness of the original, but it felt useless when Q wasn't up. Also took 10% off of the Q bonus to vik to slow the enemy down by that amount. Flat MS boost per level will make him zip around disrupting things as he should be able to.

Quote:
Augment: Gravity: Gravity Field has an additional 30% cast range and reduces the AR/MR of enemies within by 10%. The item now grants him +3 ability power per level, +200 mana and 5% reduced cooldowns. UNIQUE AURA: Allied champions receive 25% tenacity (does not stack), 5 mana regen per 5 seconds and 5% reduced cooldowns.
-Enjoyed the range increase for more zone, but it was useless to support with in terms of stats, so I turned it into an aura with minimal alterations to make it a bit more useful in teamfights. Tenacity value is less than merc treads and won't stack so it shouldn't be OP but it would be incredibly helpful to AD carries and allies who didn't build merc treads. (only potential worry I have on this is allied irelias)

Quote:
Augment: Death: Death Ray sets fire to enemies, dealing 30% additional magic damage over 4 seconds. The item now grants him +3 ability power per level and +45 ability power.
-Would still like to see a third tier augment, also, it's halloween and I wrote this in a lab coat. Still one of my favorite champs, but he needs some TLC


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Jeff Incredible

Member

10-31-2012

Played Viktor for a while. His delay on shield with Q defeats the purpose during laning and 1v1's coupled with it's short range. His auto attack is one of the more annoying delays in animation.

I do like his E very much, the range is awesome if you do it in a straight line towards your target from max distance.

As everyone else said the Augments need attention. Q augment doesn't seem to fit very well for what his role should be. W augment is actually pretty decent for mid game. E augment is clearly the best for damage. There really isn't a good reason that I see for not being able to sell it.
Ult could use an augment for speed increase. The system on Kha'Zix would probably work decent on Viktor giving you a progressive bonus to whichever skill you wanted.


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YippotheClown

Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Incredible View Post
Played Viktor for a while. His delay on shield with Q defeats the purpose during laning and 1v1's coupled with it's short range. His auto attack is one of the more annoying delays in animation.

Or alternatively, the purpose isn't what you had in mind? :P


The purpose is to allow you extended trades in lane, i.e. throwing a few autoattacks in and absorbing the creep damage that you'd otherwise take. This is very useful levels 1-3 when you can be hyperaggressive with your Q and out-trade most mids consistently.

Late game, that travel time won't screw you at any time other than when you've been caught out and are going to die either way. Short of being instakilled, you'll have time to wait for the return.


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Makarov

Member

10-31-2012

Overall I think Viktor is almost in the perfect spot. In my opinion his range needs to be SLIGHTLY tweaked. It just feels a little off whenever i play him. I think that his Augments should give some type of stacks upon kills and assists that way he won't have a very weak augment nor a super strong one unless he gets fed and starts snowballing hard.


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exe3

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Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
This should be fixed. When was the last time you observed disappearing lasers?
Yes it *should* be fixed. Someone (you?) said you fixed it and it just needed testing with it probably getting out next patch. That was like 4 patches ago and none of the patch notes have mentioned any fixes for his laser.


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Captain Jono

Junior Member

10-31-2012

Viktor players:
Why did you decide to play Viktor
His splash/lore and the idea that, with the flexibility his augment gave, I could build for any situation. The problem is, only the Death augment is really viable, so balls-to-the-wall damage is the only real option.

and what do you like/dislike the most about him currently?
Likes:
- The lazor. It has a fun and rewarding mechanic, hits like a truck, and lets me facecheck from 10 miles away? Please don't change anything about it.
- Teamfight presence. Ult + W + E across their faces. Yes please.
- W's ability to block off exits/chases
Dislikes:
- Lack of any real playstyle variations
- I guess his Q feels a little 'meh'. It's ok... it's just boring?

Suggestions:

- I'd like his Q to transfer his shield in two halves, half on contact with the target, half on return. (Rather than all once it returns). This would help is poke quite a bit in lane, without risking an op range increase.

For his passive, I'd make the following changes: (lots of credit goes to Maleficus Nex's post on p157, I mostly just made edits to the parts of his I didn't like):

- Power Augment needs to give spell vamp instead of Hp5. The power augment feels like it should be the 'tanky' augment, and a low passive health regen isn't going to do anything for you.

- Each augment should be able to be upgraded more than once, and the player should be able to switch out hex cores if one isn't working for them. (1000g for first upgrade, 650g for each later? Also a 1000g cost for an augment switch) Each upgrade after the first improves upon the stats given, as well as the ap per level. That way Viktor has something to spend his gold on other than pots, his non-death augments can still add some more damage late game, and it feels like he's continuing his glorious evolution.

- Each augment should affect ALL of Viktor's abilities so that there is an actual gameplay change for one.

Power - 'Tanky AP'
Q - Lowers their damage, boosts your damage. The movespeed boost doesn't really fit the theme here, and this way you get extra mileage out of your shield.
W - 50% of damage to dealt to enemies within the radius is returned as a shield. Allows for some teamfight tankiness that the Q alone couldn't provide
E - Increase the width, and increase its movement speed. This is more of a 'feel' upgrade; a faster, bigger laser FEELS powerful
R - Change the 0.5 second silence to a 0.75 second stun. Another 'feel' upgrade. the silence feels kind of wimpy, but an immob/silence (re: stun) feels 'power'ful. Also, since most teams who need someone tankier really want someone to initiate, this'll help.

Death - ''Glass Cannon AP'
Q - Upon exhaustion, the shield explodes for damage = the amount of shield. Towards late game, whoever wants to get in your face will, and you'll melt. This will at least let Viktor go out with a bang.
W - Reduces Armor/MR on targets per stack of slow. It's really the only way that I can think of that'd allow W to improve damage in some way
E - Please don't touch my lazor. I like it the way it is.
R - Also applies a grievous wounds effect to all affected. His ult already does pretty ridiculous damage, so I don't think straight up damage should be added to it. However, I think this would be a nice little upgrade.

Gravity - "Disruption Support"
Q - Slows the target, and grants Viktor movement speed. Moving the ms here makes more sense thematically than having it be power's upgrade, However, as this is his support augment, slowing the target also helps his teammates escape/chase.
W - It seems to be fine as is. Maybe a slight radius increase would be nice?
E - On contact with an enemy, it knocks them to the side. (Like Draven's 'Stand Aside') This gives Viktor a quick disruption, (outside of his ult), that can be used to peel chasers, interrupt channels, mess with position, etc. It also allows him to combo with his W quite nicely.
R - Enemies moving away from the singularity move more slowly (within a certain range) This also combos well with Vik's W for some strong teamfight positioning disruption. It can also help secure kills that might've otherwise gotten away


(Again most of credit goes to Maleficus Nex's post on p157, I mostly just made edits to the parts of his I didn't like):



EDIT: Please PLEASE stop mentioning the 'disappearing laser' bug in this thread. That's been fixed (or at least I haven't seen it and my enemies haven't complained about it) for like 2 months now.


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Victorrr

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Victor is fine. Leave him the way he is


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Feed N Leave

Member

10-31-2012

I have an idea, although I haven't read through this entire thread and it may have already come up- what if at certain level (6 maybe), Viktor gained access to all three augments, but could only activate one at a time? He could change them (with a cooldown of say, one minute to prevent viktors from simply rapidly changing their augment throughout a fight, and also have a channel time to prevent him from swapping mid teamfight), and the passive is no longer as much of a disadvantage (how many other champs have passives that cost 1000 gold to make the best of and takes up an inventory slot?)

Not only would this change not effect what makes him fun, but also make the "evolution" theme more fitting, as every teamfight, depending on the situation, Viktor is going to have a different ability augmented. Upholds the theme, makes Viktor players have more choices and does so without being OP. Thoughts?


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XSilentSinX

Member

10-31-2012

I love how Viktor has a good amount of poke, but can still be pretty bursty when needed. The only problems that I see are with his evolutions. As a post I saw on reddit said, its kind of unfair that Kha'Zix gets his evolutions for free, while Viktor has to pay. Now I do know that this payment is also for the extra stats that he gets on the item, but if you look at the three possible augmentations from a math perspective, the only worthwhile augmentation that gives you value (again mathematically) is Augment: Death, because all the other stats that are offered by the other augmentations are not worth as much as you are paying for them. Not only that, but since you are taking away one item slot and replacing it with the staff, you should at least make it close in worth to items that you might miss out on due to you only having 5 slots.


I think that if you buff the extra stats that you gain by purchasing specific augments it will not only stop people from getting Augment: Death 90% of the time, but also make him a bit more viable in play. For example, Augment: Power grants +220 hp, +6 hp regen/5sec and the move speed active to power transfer (last time i checked). I feel (as most vik players might) that this just is not worth the 1000g that you pay for him, and if you want health and hp regen, I would rather use that slot for something like a warmogs. In the case of Augment: Gravity it gives +200 mana, +10% CDR, +5 mp regen/ 5sec and the increased cast ranged on gravity field. Again this is much better replaced with something like Athene's unholy grail which gives you extra AP, more mp regen, extra MR and more CDR. not to mention its passive all in exchange for the +200 mana the augment gives.

Augment: Death gives an extra +45 AP and the burn on his Death Ray. This is the only worthwhile augment as the AP value you get for your gold is equal and his E augment can secure kills better by acting like an extra ignite.