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Riot will NEVER respond to any thread of importance (and here's why)

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Seethman

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Amazing!
I love these guys. Thanks, Tryndamere. Keep it up.


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EnderForHegemon

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Tryndamere:
Thanks for the detailed initial post. I understand and can relate to your frustration, because for years, I sat on your guys side of the fence as a passionate gamer who really wanted to help the game that I loved be even better. I would sit for hours writing up detailed posts, I would discuss with my friends and I would wrack my brain on figuring out how to "get through" to the company that could make decisions that impacted this thing that I cared about so greatly.

It is thus a strange twist of fate that I now sit where I sit and have the ability to either cause great frustration in you all, or, to alleviate this frustration and ideally channel your passionate energy into something constructive for our game and community.

Let me attempt to do so (in a small way) by responding to this post, but hopefully by the end of reading this, I will help reassure some of you that each and every day, 24 hours a day, these are precisely the things that we spend all of our time thinking about - because we want the same things you do.



Agreed. Allow me to apologize officially on behalf of Riot for our poor handling of many situations. If it is any consolation, I would like you (and whomever else reads this), that we do very thorough and formalized "retrospectives" of all of these events - and many others - to help us do better in the future and not make the same mistakes, or, to react to current situations that we haven't adequately addressed. Many of the topics you have listed are situations that various teams at the company are actively working on.

Now, what does "actively working on" mean? This is one thing that you cite that is frustrating. Sure we "say" that we are "actively working on" something, but words are wind - as we all know.

That's one of the reason we created the League of Legends timeline, http://timeline.leagueoflegends.com/ - we wanted to remind everyone about how significantly the game has evolved and will continue to evolve because we are constantly "actively working" on many things.

But the underlying reason for a lot of the issues you have cited with concern is that Riot has grown a lot in order to expand our capabilities to support tens of millions of users around the world, and ensuring that all of the multitude of things that we do on a daily basis are always awesome and fully aligned with our goal of delighting you all with awesome, is simply put, difficult. The good news is that we are a company that learns very quickly and has amazing people at all levels of the company who care deeply about this mission. We WANT to deliver awesome with everything that we do. When we don't, we take it very seriously.

I can say with confidence, that this is one thing that separates us from many other companies - from top to bottom, the thing that matters most to us is delighting our players and that's what drives our decisions. When we do something that deviates from that, it is likely due to sub-optimal execution, or misalignment internally, rather than any deliberate attempt to be not awesome. It's hard to demonstrate this, but I think the players who have come to events and met us or visited the office can vouch for these things, but ideally we'll have more ways to communicate and reinforce these ideals in a more scaleable way in the future (we are actively working on that =p).



The real reason we don't address some of these things head on, is because often times we don't have great answers and/or are working on great long term solutions that aren't ready for daylight yet.

We have learned over time (from community feedback) that saying we are working on something really isn't a great answer, because time is a very important factor that has a different perception depending on who is looking at the situation and whose perspective we are looking at it from. Example: if a character is slightly OP, say has a 2% higher win rate than our average, (by tending to win too many matchups, or be too versatile, etc), the severity of the issue can be different depending on who is looking at the situation. Competitive players may think it is a major issue due it this character impacting the meta (picks, bans, lane allocations, etc), while many other players may not care at all. Or, our design team may think that a noob stompy champion (say, Tryndamere!!1) who is not frequently used at high level play, is a much more important issue to address because it impacts a large % of players, but the competitive tier doesn't really have this come up on their radar, etc.

The key is that things are relative based on the viewers perspective (any physics or philosophy majors out there?).

Now, that's a design example, but we may have a similar situation re: priorities that hit other issues, like pricing, development priorities, etc. Sometimes we "stop gap" until we have a better long term solution.

A great example is pricing. We haven't been fully happy with our pricing communication, approach and execution because believe it or not, pricing is not something that receives much attention from most senior people at the company. We're focused on creating awesome - like developing E-sports, building game features, improving our content or intellectual property, building the organization, launching internationally, etc.

Pricing, aside from us saying "let's have the game be free forever and never sell power" has largely been an after thought because our view is that if we create awesome, then our players will reward us. That has held true.

Thus, if we botch the retirement of skins, or don't have enough sales, it is really due to organizational momentum and the lack of real leadership driving a directional change based on your guys feedback. The good news is, for those who care about pricing and those types of things, is that we have real, dedicated leadership here now who can focus on doing a better job of ensuring your needs are better met from that perspective.

Now, that doesn't mean that all skins will now cost 0 IP, or something equally drastic, but what it DOES mean is that there will be a lot more careful consideration, focus and communication with you all about what we're doing there.

With pretty much anything that sucks that we do, the upstream "cause" can be traced to that - the lack of sufficient mindshare because we probably think something else is more important - until we find the right person or grow the organization in such a way as to enable us to do all that we need to do in parallel.

There's no conspiracy where we're sitting around twisting our mustaches, if anything, the only mustache twisting we do is in regards to "creating more awesome" and figuring out how to delight you. Ask any Rioter, and they will tell you the same thing. Pretty much all of our focus internally is on that.



That's really just not the case. The problem simply relates to more "noise" and more things to do. We now are the largest online game in the world and serve (literally) tens of millions of gamers. Scale is hard, but we think we're up to the challenge and we appreciate your support.

You holding faith that we WILL do better is important to us, and don't be afraid to call us out when we're not as awesome as we usually are - because it is critical for us to keep our execution bar as high (or even higher) than it has always been.

The cool thing is, in all seriousness, we do have tons of awesome in store and our capabilities are stronger than ever. The Season 3 teaser from today is a sneak peak in this direction, but we have a lot more awesome coming that I don't want to spoil with a message board post (because the announcements or the releases will be 100000000x cooler).

Hopefully this was helpful and thanks for all of your patience while we keep trying to do an even better job for you guys.

On a personal note, my ELO has dropped from about 1650 to 1400 because I'm focusing so much more on trying to build our organizational capabilities than I am at keeping my LOL skills sharp - another tragedy that I look forward to remedying (so trust me when I say I'm motivated)!


I like this post and You should feel good.


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Urf Bender

Senior Member

08-06-2012

A red posted... (chuckle)


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Malurth

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Tryndamere:
words


^ Last Riot post about serious issues for the next 3-12 months while nothing really changes.


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Lurnaezel

Senior Member

08-06-2012

The president of Riot himself spoke, but, for me, that doesn't change anything untill they prove that they can and will do what the Prez said.


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Melogrunty

Senior Member

08-06-2012

In after Tryndamere


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xHarukox

Senior Member

08-06-2012

this


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The Blueman Crew

Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Tryndamere:
Haha

So, will we be expecting any sort of news tonight? We haven't had a new sale for awhile...


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CataclysmCrash

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Tryndamere:
Thanks for the detailed initial post. I understand and can relate to your frustration, because for years, I sat on your guys side of the fence as a passionate gamer who really wanted to help the game that I loved be even better. I would sit for hours writing up detailed posts, I would discuss with my friends and I would wrack my brain on figuring out how to "get through" to the company that could make decisions that impacted this thing that I cared about so greatly.

It is thus a strange twist of fate that I now sit where I sit and have the ability to either cause great frustration in you all, or, to alleviate this frustration and ideally channel your passionate energy into something constructive for our game and community.

Let me attempt to do so (in a small way) by responding to this post, but hopefully by the end of reading this, I will help reassure some of you that each and every day, 24 hours a day, these are precisely the things that we spend all of our time thinking about - because we want the same things you do.



Agreed. Allow me to apologize officially on behalf of Riot for our poor handling of many situations. If it is any consolation, I would like you (and whomever else reads this), that we do very thorough and formalized "retrospectives" of all of these events - and many others - to help us do better in the future and not make the same mistakes, or, to react to current situations that we haven't adequately addressed. Many of the topics you have listed are situations that various teams at the company are actively working on.

Now, what does "actively working on" mean? This is one thing that you cite that is frustrating. Sure we "say" that we are "actively working on" something, but words are wind - as we all know.

That's one of the reason we created the League of Legends timeline, http://timeline.leagueoflegends.com/ - we wanted to remind everyone about how significantly the game has evolved and will continue to evolve because we are constantly "actively working" on many things.

But the underlying reason for a lot of the issues you have cited with concern is that Riot has grown a lot in order to expand our capabilities to support tens of millions of users around the world, and ensuring that all of the multitude of things that we do on a daily basis are always awesome and fully aligned with our goal of delighting you all with awesome, is simply put, difficult. The good news is that we are a company that learns very quickly and has amazing people at all levels of the company who care deeply about this mission. We WANT to deliver awesome with everything that we do. When we don't, we take it very seriously.

I can say with confidence, that this is one thing that separates us from many other companies - from top to bottom, the thing that matters most to us is delighting our players and that's what drives our decisions. When we do something that deviates from that, it is likely due to sub-optimal execution, or misalignment internally, rather than any deliberate attempt to be not awesome. It's hard to demonstrate this, but I think the players who have come to events and met us or visited the office can vouch for these things, but ideally we'll have more ways to communicate and reinforce these ideals in a more scaleable way in the future (we are actively working on that =p).



The real reason we don't address some of these things head on, is because often times we don't have great answers and/or are working on great long term solutions that aren't ready for daylight yet.

We have learned over time (from community feedback) that saying we are working on something really isn't a great answer, because time is a very important factor that has a different perception depending on who is looking at the situation and whose perspective we are looking at it from. Example: if a character is slightly OP, say has a 2% higher win rate than our average, (by tending to win too many matchups, or be too versatile, etc), the severity of the issue can be different depending on who is looking at the situation. Competitive players may think it is a major issue due it this character impacting the meta (picks, bans, lane allocations, etc), while many other players may not care at all. Or, our design team may think that a noob stompy champion (say, Tryndamere!!1) who is not frequently used at high level play, is a much more important issue to address because it impacts a large % of players, but the competitive tier doesn't really have this come up on their radar, etc.

The key is that things are relative based on the viewers perspective (any physics or philosophy majors out there?).

Now, that's a design example, but we may have a similar situation re: priorities that hit other issues, like pricing, development priorities, etc. Sometimes we "stop gap" until we have a better long term solution.

A great example is pricing. We haven't been fully happy with our pricing communication, approach and execution because believe it or not, pricing is not something that receives much attention from most senior people at the company. We're focused on creating awesome - like developing E-sports, building game features, improving our content or intellectual property, building the organization, launching internationally, etc.

Pricing, aside from us saying "let's have the game be free forever and never sell power" has largely been an after thought because our view is that if we create awesome, then our players will reward us. That has held true.

Thus, if we botch the retirement of skins, or don't have enough sales, it is really due to organizational momentum and the lack of real leadership driving a directional change based on your guys feedback. The good news is, for those who care about pricing and those types of things, is that we have real, dedicated leadership here now who can focus on doing a better job of ensuring your needs are better met from that perspective.

Now, that doesn't mean that all skins will now cost 0 IP, or something equally drastic, but what it DOES mean is that there will be a lot more careful consideration, focus and communication with you all about what we're doing there.

With pretty much anything that sucks that we do, the upstream "cause" can be traced to that - the lack of sufficient mindshare because we probably think something else is more important - until we find the right person or grow the organization in such a way as to enable us to do all that we need to do in parallel.

There's no conspiracy where we're sitting around twisting our mustaches, if anything, the only mustache twisting we do is in regards to "creating more awesome" and figuring out how to delight you. Ask any Rioter, and they will tell you the same thing. Pretty much all of our focus internally is on that.



That's really just not the case. The problem simply relates to more "noise" and more things to do. We now are the largest online game in the world and serve (literally) tens of millions of gamers. Scale is hard, but we think we're up to the challenge and we appreciate your support.

You holding faith that we WILL do better is important to us, and don't be afraid to call us out when we're not as awesome as we usually are - because it is critical for us to keep our execution bar as high (or even higher) than it has always been.

The cool thing is, in all seriousness, we do have tons of awesome in store and our capabilities are stronger than ever. The Season 3 teaser from today is a sneak peak in this direction, but we have a lot more awesome coming that I don't want to spoil with a message board post (because the announcements or the releases will be 100000000x cooler).

Hopefully this was helpful and thanks for all of your patience while we keep trying to do an even better job for you guys.

On a personal note, my ELO has dropped from about 1650 to 1400 because I'm focusing so much more on trying to build our organizational capabilities than I am at keeping my LOL skills sharp - another tragedy that I look forward to remedying (so trust me when I say I'm motivated)!


Now this thread has an ironic name.


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rathy Aro

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Do they pay you guys to read these boards? because facebook/youtube are a lot more entertaining and a lot less frustrating I imagine.