Stuck in ELO Hell? Need pointers/help?

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DoooMAR

Junior Member

08-17-2012

Hey, I'm DoooMAR and I main ADC, I wonder which one does not rely so heavily on my eam so I can actually manage to carry the team?


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Duhizy

Senior Member

08-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoooMAR View Post
Hey, I'm DoooMAR and I main ADC, I wonder which one does not rely so heavily on my eam so I can actually manage to carry the team?
any adc that has enough farm or kills or even just gets to late game can carry a team, as far as the ones that are the least relent on your team id say ezreal,graves,corki,cait,trist are all safe carries but at the end of the day if you have no protection then you will neither do damage or carry unless the enemy team is bad.


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C00LST0RYBR0

Senior Member

08-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhizy View Post
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727342

you lost because you picked the wrong champions, rewatch this replay and you'll understand because they win in every single aspect of the game, more damage,more cc, more mobility and more tanky. Given the situation of this game you should be giving praise the graves for doing as well as he did because the fact is that the enemy team had 4 champions that could jump on him and kill him and theres nothing that he could do about it because you guys have no cc, If i were you, i wouldnt have picked morde in this comp to begin with but even if i did i would have rushed a rylais.
So it's my mistake that our jungler got a 0 CC champ after I picked Morde. Morde is a good counterpick to Diana. Diana isn't easy to deal with. I can't counterpick everybody by myself. Our 4th and 5th pick both picked no CC after a Morde. They are the ones that did this not me.

I don't blame the Graves. The Shyvana did this mostly. Also the Soraka pick.

I agree with the Rylais, might have helped. A 15% slow isn't too powerful though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by duhizy View Post
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727543

Mistake #3: Around the 30 min mark mf went to farm bot lane and got 5 man ganked and killed, obv not your fault shes bad but i didnt see a single retreat ping, it was pretty obvious that its a bad idea to be that far extended with no vision on anyone. Ping, type as hard as u can, most respond to the morde thats doing work but if she doesnt the nothing can be done other than having warded better.
I told her in chat they were doing dragon and then coming. She didn't back.

Mistake #2 you are probably right. I used the ghost to chase cait away so my team would attack the tower, which they wouldn't if Cait was near and attacking them (which is a common reaction at this elo). Even with 5v3 advantages a team will rarely push a tower at my elo, you need to type it 10 times in ALL CAPS, if you want something to happen. It's mind-boggling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhizy View Post
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727543

Also need i talk about the 3 person bot lane push that cost u baron, i know u pinged by ffs mf still backed to base. I cried for a full hour about this... obv had this not happened then the game could have gone either way. Imo if you had somehow stopped these mistakes 4 then this would have been an almost garenteed win.
Guess how frustrating it is for me to play every match with ******* that don't understand the most basic gameplay mechanics. Yes, I do make mistakes, small mistakes, and I correct them afterwards, and I understand them. But it is almost always one or two of my teammates that do the game throwing mistakes that cost us the win. Bad picks, bad builds, bad decisions, or massive feeding.

In anohter close game recently I had a Taric, that facecheck 3 times by himself. That just loses you the game.

Another thing that really annoys me is that my supports and junglers almost never get oracles, while the enemy team has it. Then they refuse to ward, saying... " the enemy has oracle, no point to ward " . I mean like wtf are these people doing in ranked.


Quote:
Originally Posted by duhizy View Post

Mistake #1: early game you allowed jax to take two top towers because you took so long to stop them from doing dragon, you got lucky the first time were you guys had two people top and were outnumbered at dragon and still managed a 2 for 2 and stop their dragon. The issue after is what u guys did after both players left jax alone top and went bot to dragon. In this scenario it was 5v4 because jax was top and they started dragon again,THE SECOND that irelia and skarner showed up you should have pinged and typed etc and asked skarner to flash grab someone preferably not the one tanking dragon.
I was well aware that Jax was puhsing top. The problem is I either go top and defend, and the enemy will win 4v4 for sure, because as you might have noticed that Skarner didn't have the slightest Idee what he was doing, neither did the MF. So it's either lose 4 people and dragon or lose top tower.

I assume the reason you don't mention the Irelia is because I can't influence it. However she was very very bad at farming. No Trinity Force at 33 minutes. That also cost us alot of initiation power. She also gave first blood to Jax 1v1.

Just in case you didn't realise from the replay how mechanicly bad my teammates where and how godawful their decision making was, I will provide some additional information.


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Alot of my decisions evolve around babysitting the bads. If I don't things get even worse, which reduces the chances of winning even further. This looks like bad decision making on my part, but it really isn't.

Thats what I don't like about the team rating system. If an initiator is bad, he can get his whole team killed and the team has no choice but to follow up. If they don't, it's a 4v5. Same goes with getting caught alone in late game. You can throw the game for your whole team like that. One bad decision of one player costs everybody rating.


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C00LST0RYBR0

Senior Member

08-17-2012

Here's another great example of ignorance/misunderstanding of the game... this time luckily not on my team.
You basicly f your team over if you get sunfire instead of frozen heart. I bet he was saving for Madred's Bloodrazor too.


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Duhizy

Senior Member

08-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by C00LST0RYBR0 View Post
So it's my mistake that our jungler got a 0 CC champ after I picked Morde. Morde is a good counterpick to Diana. Diana isn't easy to deal with. I can't counterpick everybody by myself. Our 4th and 5th pick both picked no CC after a Morde. They are the ones that did this not me.

I don't blame the Graves. The Shyvana did this mostly. Also the Soraka pick.

I agree with the Rylais, might have helped. A 15% slow isn't too powerful though.




I told her in chat they were doing dragon and then coming. She didn't back.

Mistake #2 you are probably right. I used the ghost to chase cait away so my team would attack the tower, which they wouldn't if Cait was near and attacking them (which is a common reaction at this elo). Even with 5v3 advantages a team will rarely push a tower at my elo, you need to type it 10 times in ALL CAPS, if you want something to happen. It's mind-boggling.



Guess how frustrating it is for me to play every match with ******* that don't understand the most basic gameplay mechanics. Yes, I do make mistakes, small mistakes, and I correct them afterwards, and I understand them. But it is almost always one or two of my teammates that do the game throwing mistakes that cost us the win. Bad picks, bad builds, bad decisions, or massive feeding.

In anohter close game recently I had a Taric, that facecheck 3 times by himself. That just loses you the game.

Another thing that really annoys me is that my supports and junglers almost never get oracles, while the enemy team has it. Then they refuse to ward, saying... " the enemy has oracle, no point to ward " . I mean like wtf are these people doing in ranked.




I was well aware that Jax was puhsing top. The problem is I either go top and defend, and the enemy will win 4v4 for sure, because as you might have noticed that Skarner didn't have the slightest Idee what he was doing, neither did the MF. So it's either lose 4 people and dragon or lose top tower.

I assume the reason you don't mention the Irelia is because I can't influence it. However she was very very bad at farming. No Trinity Force at 33 minutes. That also cost us alot of initiation power. She also gave first blood to Jax 1v1.

Just in case you didn't realise from the replay how mechanicly bad my teammates where and how godawful their decision making was, I will provide some additional information.


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Alot of my decisions evolve around babysitting the bads. If I don't things get even worse, which reduces the chances of winning even further. This looks like bad decision making on my part, but it really isn't.

Thats what I don't like about the team rating system. If an initiator is bad, he can get his whole team killed and the team has no choice but to follow up. If they don't, it's a 4v5. Same goes with getting caught alone in late game. You can throw the game for your whole team like that. One bad decision of one player costs everybody rating.
shyvana had phage so if you had gotten rylais and asked your graves to get red buff then you could have actually won team fights, the enemy was charging at him 1at a time so you just kill them all as they approach, this game could have honestly gone either way if this occurred because graves had good farm and mechanics.

At the end of the day its their fault that they dont know the little things that can win a game but u must remember that this is the reason they are at this elo, your job as the person with knowledge they dont have is to educate them every game in a polite manner. You say that the skarner had no idea what he was doing, alright, show him the way, tell him what to do before he does something incorrect.

Going back top to defend was out of the question after everyone left for dragon but had you asked your skarner to engage at dragon asap then you could have gained a huge lead rather then lose a big one, also had u asked your team to back off after baron the you could still have won even in that situation. They are mistakes that your teammates make because they are at that elo, it YOUR fault however that you didnt influence them when you had every chance to.

your logic: teammates are bad so i never gain elo
logic of people that gain elo: everything that i could of changed for the better and didnt is the reason i lost, i will fix it and try again.

With that logic just by studying yourself you will become a better player and acquire elo. There are also simpler ways to do it, play a champion with an engage so that you can make these shots yourself, and get fed to do massive damage, make the right calls because you are the engage and try to synergies with your team. Imo the best mid champs for this elo are orianna,gragas, annie, kennen, morg, jungle: skarner, malphite, anyone with engage. Also the alternative is to duo bot lane and poon everyone and hard carry every game.Fed ad+ protection is gg always. It honestly doesnt even matter what champ you play as long as you can influence the game with your experience the most, i suggest ap carries with engages but there are strong top laners with engages to like malphite,gp, riven, darius, jax etc etc. Find your favourite role, find your favourite champ that can effect your team the most and go from there.


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Worldsworst

Senior Member

08-17-2012

I usually try to go mid in these low elo games and carry my team through ganking other lanes as much as possible. Even though most games my KDA ratio will be well over 2, I feel as if there's still more I could be doing because I'm barely winning more games than I lose. Here's links to a couple games I lost today. I'm hoping I can get some feedback on why we lost (other than my feeding teammates) and what else I can do to help my win ratio go up. Thanks.
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/731704/
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/731698/


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C00LST0RYBR0

Senior Member

08-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhizy View Post

With that logic just by studying yourself you will become a better player and acquire elo. There are also simpler ways to do it, play a champion with an engage so that you can make these shots yourself, and get fed to do massive damage, make the right calls because you are the engage and try to synergies with your team. Imo the best mid champs for this elo are orianna,gragas, annie, kennen, morg, jungle: skarner, malphite, anyone with engage. Also the alternative is to duo bot lane and poon everyone and hard carry every game.Fed ad+ protection is gg always. It honestly doesnt even matter what champ you play as long as you can influence the game with your experience the most, i suggest ap carries with engages but there are strong top laners with engages to like malphite,gp, riven, darius, jax etc etc. Find your favourite role, find your favourite champ that can effect your team the most and go from there.
I play gp top quite often, if I don't get mid.

The problem with engages is this... you need the team to follow up. As you are used to high elo, where people will obviously follow up alot better, you might expect this to happen. In my experience a beastie champ like Morde has a higher chance to turn a bad game around compared to an initiator AP with a team that won't follow up (which is very very common at this elo). I believe this changes with higher elo where the power of an initiator will surpass a tanky ap. For instance in the game below I don't think an initiator could have done more than what I achieved with Morde.

Now I could be wrong, but this is just my experience. The problem is neither me nor you can proof this. The issue isn't as trivial as one might think. What works in high elo doesn't necessarily work accordingly in low elo. Also, there are players that raised to 2000 elo with only Morde, so that means it is possible, the question is, what are they doing that I am not doing.

I have around 33 ranked Ahri games (~ 60 total), with a horrid 33% win ratio. The biggest problem I found is this: Ahri can't do anything when the team won't follow up. Even if I was ahead it didn't matter as follow ups rarely ever happend, or they would focused a tank, if I charmed one (which happens in 5v5 sieges), instead of just waiting. That was the main reason I stopped playing Ahri. I think Ahri is amazingly strong, but not with clueless teammates of low elo solo q. It's for the same reason Twisted Fate isn't ever banned in lower elos. He is worthless if your team doesn't follow up.

Gragas is strong, not sure he offers more protection to the team than Morde though. I'm always on the lookout for another AP of comparable strength. I tried Karthus too... I had games where I had 300 CS, some 100 CS ahead of the enemies and then in teamfights I would do around 50-60% of the whole enemy teams helath in damage before going zombie, just to watch my team getting aced afterwards, as they weren't capable of finishing the low health enemies off. I tried alot of AP champs to be honest.
I don't think Ori ist worth it. The skillcap on that champ is so high, that in order to beat an easily playable AP (such as Gragas) you have to be insanely good with her. And she has the same problem all initiators have, which I explained above.

Duo bot isn't an option so far. My online times are very irregular. I've tried it with several people I know. However none of them were consistent enough to be honest. I'm pretty good with Leona, but averege with the other supports.

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http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/1084866/
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/1270234/

Here are two great replays... as you can see I honestly get an above average amount of increadably bad teammates and trolls, as you should have seen by now.

And just in case you thought those 2 games were bad... watch this one... (and yes I'm well aware that dragon call was bad)

...leaguereplays.com/replays/match/1273791/ (bugged out, can't download)
http://www63.zippyshare.com/v/64030008/file.html (reuploaded LRF file, it's safe)



One positive match I had so far....

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/1206082/

This was a very close match. It's a good example of how much top lane depends on a jungle, and why I'd rather play mid. The Nocturn we had never ganked top lane (that was puhsing for pretty much 15 minutes straight).

You might be surprised that at 1400 elo players still don't understand that the COUNTER to pushing enemies are GANKS. Here's the proof. He made up for it by getting Frozen Heart though, that helped us alot.

I invested into late game, knowing I can't beat Irelia 1v1, lost in CS hard after I got no ganks.


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C00LST0RYBR0

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Remember the point I made about the initiator... check out this replay and you'll know what I mean. This is how two bad initiators (skarner/xin) throw a game for you.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/1392862/


And it's not like I haven't lost enough now is it.... the problem with 4v5 isn't so much that they can't be won, it's that the team doesn't even try to win.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/1423135/


Here we go again, Singed (Nice Thornmail btw) that feeds Riven like 5 kills and doesn't buy wards, and constantly pushes, so there is literally no chance for me to gank. Taric, Ezreal that lose to an Ashe, Sona lane... now I'm 1290 elo.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/1426008/



Now where were we. Ah, yes you were saying there is skill involved in League of Legends... so please educate me.

I'm at 1250 right now (again for like the 4th time), sorry, but this has nothing to with skills. It's just pure luck. I just get 12 bad teams in a row and I'm back where I started. No matter what I do.

You clearly said with my mechanics I shouldn't be at this elo, well guess what. I am after 250 games still at this elo.


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So, now that I'm in the never ending ****storm that is 1250 elo, with the worst of the worst players, I guess I'm ****ed.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/1649580/

For instance, this Ashe and this Shaco... well. Only way is down.


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Hokeypokey

Member

11-16-2012

I always forget to use replay...but i would like to do a game with you in game if i can for in game pointers of how i can become better when you get the chance