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Stuck in ELO Hell? Need pointers/help?

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moonway

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
dota1467:
this is just a normal game but can you please have a look I would really like some advice. Help greatly appreciated

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/701884/

If your not gonna be able to do in the 24 hours can you please give an eta of when you will be finished

dont no why it is not in spec mode I have it ticked on options


2-3 days


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Duhizy

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
usadcuzubad:
Duhizy's Replay

Situations:
1:40- RESULT: missed exp CAUSE: didn't do golems. standing in the lane brush at lvl 1 only works at low level gameplay. You could have done golems as blue side (by kiting them and switching aggro) for a faster lvl 2 and more dominant laning phase
17:05- RESULT: died CAUSE: facechecked when their AP mid came down through a ward. You had an intent to 1v1 her, but that was a bad idea. AP carries can nuke down AD carries easily especially early game. You should be careful to confront an AP carry unless you are significantly ahead which you weren't. It was also a 3v2 because trynd was at golems and the enemy team was closing in. Luckily your team came ahead, but keep this in mind.
19:50- RESULT: died CAUSE: played way too aggressively without wards. You don't have to play that aggressive against a MF and Taric because both of those champions scale horribly (mf's steroid is horrible and has no escapes/survivability, taric is just a stun/aura bot).
22:10- RESULT: teammate died. CAUSE: chased way too long w/o vision again. You should have pinged your team to back.
30:00- RESULT: team dived and got 0 for 3'd CAUSE: they dived with baron. You should never really dive a team with that much aoe (zyra udyr mf taric). You should have told your team not to dive or pinged to back. Solo queue is all about taking control of your team and leading them to victory.

KEY THINGS:
- Don't play too aggressively or chase when you have no vision of the enemy.
- Group up with your team more. Split pushing late into the game will cause 5v4's for your team or barons and can cost you the game
Additional Notes:
- Against a taric/leona/blitz/ali (any kill lane), its better to take spellshield at lvl 2 to prevent you from dieing. the ricochet at lvl 1 barely does anymore damage and just pushes your lane.
- It's better to just save money for your BF sword than building a cloak of agility, because the upgrade cost from pick axe/cloak to an IE is 2k gold. Also, bf sword provides more sustained damage than pickaxe and better trading power.
- Don't sell your dorans for an zeal, because the dorans provides so much and sells back for so little. It's better to just keep it and farm another 200 gold for the zeal. At about 26:20 you did this and you were very squishy w/o your dorans. The only reason I would sell dorans is to buy a LW/QSS/GA because by that time you would be lvl 16-18 and your base stats will be much higher.
Strengths:
-Last hitting in EARLY laning phase(could be a little better but it is good as it is)
-Spellshielding

Weaknesses:
-Last hittting in MID-LATE game (after 18 minutes). You were ahead of MF by 30 cs early game and then were behind by 20 cs. (50 cs drop)
- Late game presence

It seems like you want to stay in laning phase when you're winning lane, which is good in most cases, but when you're team is losing without you, its a good time to help them a group. You missed out on about 3 teamfights that could not have been prevent because of zyra's initiation.



Tbh normally i always group up with my team past 25 min at all times but this specific game i remembered something that chaox once said on stream which was that it was my job to make sure my lane was always pushed up so that the enemy cant push and in doing so i would get the necessary cs to carry. Usually i would only push bot after we went for dragons past 20 min and would farm all other possible things to carry. What can u tell me about when to push bot lane?

Another thing. I also usually judge whether or not i should play aggressive vs passive depending on the lane but i usually still go aggressive any time i have space inbetween minion health bars and when my minions are low to force the enemy to lose more cs. If i had played less aggressive i felt that because mf was getting free damage because of her range and speed advantage that eventually i would lose out so i didnt want to take the chance and just lose the lane. Do u think that my worries were correct here? or do u think that even with the free damage i was taking due to the range difference that i should have just farmed closer to tower to deny them as a better solution.

Also, could i have won this game? that is if i had not made the mistakes that i made could i have carried?


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moonway

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
pgsg00:
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/696434/
thx!


Situations:
PURCHASED: Doran's ring, 2 wards, 1 potion. SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT: Doran's ring, 1 ward, 3 potions. REASON: warwick is a trash ganked before lvl 6, and you will hit 6 before him. You should just back right after you hit 6 so you can gank with full health, or shove mid and then gank. Either way you will go back before WW hits 6, and you needed the extra pots because you were losing on trades with Ryze.

Additional notes:
- At early levels you can come out ontop of trades vs ryze. Just pick a gold and wild card him and he can only use his q once on you.
- Ryze is weak early and strengthens late game, you should be able to zone him early.

Strengths:
- Good map awareness, knowing when to gank with TF ultimate

Weaknesses:
- Lasthitting
- Early game trading (crucial on TF because he is weaker in 1v1's mid-late game unless extremely fed)


nothing to really comment on because your whole team dominated.


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theDokiDoki

Senior Member

08-12-2012

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/712438/

Well, this one was one where I just barreled right in and gave up my ass most of the time, any tips for my jungle so I don't die as much? Also, my team nailed me for my bad ganks. Thanks!

And another one if you don't mind?

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/713350/

I'm normally not a top lane player, and I got my arse ganked off.


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Fallenzoul

Senior Member

08-13-2012

Glad ur helping the community


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Omen36

Junior Member

08-15-2012

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/724757/
and
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/724756/

Both were games I feel like I didn't do that well, but I have no idea how I could have changed the outcome of the game.


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Flinze

Recruiter

08-16-2012

I'll be uploading a loss game and a winning game game :O
I was duoing with my friend at 1390s at the time while I was just below 1250 (i'm the lee sin btw)
loss game: http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/708340/
won game: http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/720150/
and btw thanks for helping out the community by helping out us low ELOs looking for what to improve on


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C00LST0RYBR0

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Quote:
duhizy:
Imo its pretty hard to carry teams like this when your playing top lane unless you literally manage to get really fed and carry every game which you dont seem to be doing. You might have a better chance carrying these types of teams if you were a really good jungler or mid player. I personally wouldnt play ad or top if your getting these kinds of teams because they both rely on the get really fed and carry principal and as you said maybe an 1800+ player could do that ever game.

Play strong early game gank jungler like lee sin, jax, nocturne and play mid laners that can push lane and roam to help other lanes like ahri,morg,tf,fizz and try to gain the early game advantage. Each elo range is different so u must find what would increase your win rate at each range and do it until u reach the next range.


I play mid ( mostly Morde, and I win almost all lanes) and jungle (Nocturn, Nautilus), doesn't change a thing really. I'll tell you why: last game we won top and won mid, yet our duo bot fed hardcore and didn't communicate at all with the team. They ignored wards. So we just lost lategame. I could delay the game till 45 mins because I am a decent Morde player, but end game, if your ad carry is bad you lose. It's simple.

Im not sure what Riot is basing their claim on "the carry effect is stronger then the feeder effect", because it really isn't at all.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727342/ (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/redirect.php?do=verify&redirect_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leaguereplays.com%2Freplays%2Fmatch%2F727342%2F)


Let me explain to you how it works in solo queue at 1300 elo.

You get an early lead and try to pressure the enemy by puhsing, however you can't do that alone, as the enemy will defend. So you tell your team. They won't listen worth jack**** 99% of the time and just try to farm. So lategame is forced upon you. Now even when you are very fed, you can't win lategame alone, because of CC. They will focus you and you will die. Then what happens is this: one guy in your team will do something extremly bad (facecheck, solo around, ad carry in melee range in fights, and and and). That will cost you the game (feeder > carry effect). Some example... I had a Taric that facechecked 3 times by himself, we could recover from 2 of those, but not from the third. Another example. Baron is up and 3 guys in your team decide to go farm bot... you can't stop the enemy baron by yourself... doesn't matter how good you are, you can't 1v5.

So, essentially, you can't win early game and you can't win end game, if your team is bad. It's really that simple. I win 99% of my lanes and I always try to pressure and win early... but if your team doesn't help all of this doesn't matter.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727543/

Another great example. If you have an Irelia that is clueless and doesn't have Triforce at 33 minutes it doesn't really matter how farmed you are, you will just not beat a halfway decent enemy team.


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Duhizy

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Quote:
C00LST0RYBR0:
I play mid ( mostly Morde, and I win almost all lanes) and jungle (Nocturn, Nautilus), doesn't change a thing really. I'll tell you why: last game we won top and won mid, yet our duo bot fed hardcore and didn't communicate at all with the team. They ignored wards. So we just lost lategame. I could delay the game till 45 mins because I am a decent Morde player, but end game, if your ad carry is bad you lose. It's simple.

Im not sure what Riot is basing their claim on "the carry effect is stronger then the feeder effect", because it really isn't at all.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727342/ (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/redirect.php?do=verify&redirect_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leaguereplays.com%2Freplays%2Fmatch%2F727342%2F)


Let me explain to you how it works in solo queue at 1300 elo.

You get an early lead and try to pressure the enemy by puhsing, however you can't do that alone, as the enemy will defend. So you tell your team. They won't listen worth jack**** 99% of the time and just try to farm. So lategame is forced upon you. Now even when you are very fed, you can't win lategame alone, because of CC. They will focus you and you will die. Then what happens is this: one guy in your team will do something extremly bad (facecheck, solo around, ad carry in melee range in fights, and and and). That will cost you the game (feeder > carry effect). Some example... I had a Taric that facechecked 3 times by himself, we could recover from 2 of those, but not from the third. Another example. Baron is up and 3 guys in your team decide to go farm bot... you can't stop the enemy baron by yourself... doesn't matter how good you are, you can't 1v5.

So, essentially, you can't win early game and you can't win end game, if your team is bad. It's really that simple. I win 99% of my lanes and I always try to pressure and win early... but if your team doesn't help all of this doesn't matter.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727543/

Another great example. If you have an Irelia that is clueless and doesn't have Triforce at 33 minutes it doesn't really matter how farmed you are, you will just not beat a halfway decent enemy team.


http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727342

you lost because you picked the wrong champions, rewatch this replay and you'll understand because they win in every single aspect of the game, more damage,more cc, more mobility and more tanky. Given the situation of this game you should be giving praise the graves for doing as well as he did because the fact is that the enemy team had 4 champions that could jump on him and kill him and theres nothing that he could do about it because you guys have no cc, If i were you, i wouldnt have picked morde in this comp to begin with but even if i did i would have rushed a rylais so that my graves aka my only real damage source in this game might have had a chance at anything at all.

If you wanted to win this match then you needed to ask graves to get a qss fast and give him red buff while rushing a rylais yourself and killing them as they charged at graves like they did every fight except this time they wouldnt be able to kill him. Its understandable that mistakes were made, for example, your jungler picking shyvana after you had picked morde was retarded. The result of that shyvana pick was the fact that you guys couldnt kill anyone because you had no cc, you as morde were roaming and you could never succeed because everytime to tried the ez would E away and there would be nothing you could do. Not to mention the fact that everytime skarner/diana/irelia showed up they could just destroy you because diana rushed rylais and skarner had ult. The enemy teams ganks were working and shyvana was to behind to get and oracles which was basically the nail in the coffin.

Im not saying that if you had gotten rylais it was a sure win but it was the only chance that your team had unless you had decided to play a mid laner with cc like annie/orianna/ryze.

Mechanically your teammates arnt bad, its just each elo ranges people are there because they lack something that the higher elos have, for 1300 elo, i guess this is knowing who to pick and when. Think about this after you rewatch the replay, IF i was ryze/annie/orianna would my roaming bot lane ganks have succeeded? If i was ryze/annie/orianna or anything with cc would that early level mid gank by shyvana were she exhausted have gotten me a kill? This is basically the reason that the enemy won, because they had the cc and they had the damage to make sure that the early game lead they got from that cc stayed a lead.

What you did good: Other then not taking your enemies wraith camp at certain times you did everything pretty good in the laning phase, you push on diana, you csed well, you roamed at the right times, you warded properly, you reacted to what was happening on the map very well(VERY WELL .

What you can improve on: Picking the right champions for the job and building to serve your team rather then yourself ex: graves has no peel? get rylais. Another ap player on my team doing well? get WOTA. it is only when you feel like the damage is all that is needed that you rush for as much as possible and it depends on the champ as well. You also should have sent diana back home or killed her when you were 6 and she was 5, im not saying flash for it but if you had ulted and combod her she would have had like 200 health or less and she would back giving you a 2 level lead and her wraith camp as well as a gank bot or top after pushing the wave. Also next time try and ask every player what champ they plan on playing every game so that you can choose your champ to synergies with your comp, if you dont know then pick something that is safe and has cc like mid: morg, ahri,ryze,ori,kennen etc etc, jungle: noc, skarner, lee sin, naut, maoki, top: malphite is op and i dont play top so idk whos good lol. Ad: ezreal,graves, corki, tristana, cait are your best bets if you dont know your matchup or team comp.

Fix these small things and your win rate will increase, you already have the mechanics for higher elo as most people at low elo actually do have because most have been playing for a long time without thinking about what they are doing wrong or can improve and therefore can never raise their elo.


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Duhizy

Senior Member

08-17-2012

Quote:
C00LST0RYBR0:
I play mid ( mostly Morde, and I win almost all lanes) and jungle (Nocturn, Nautilus), doesn't change a thing really. I'll tell you why: last game we won top and won mid, yet our duo bot fed hardcore and didn't communicate at all with the team. They ignored wards. So we just lost lategame. I could delay the game till 45 mins because I am a decent Morde player, but end game, if your ad carry is bad you lose. It's simple.

Im not sure what Riot is basing their claim on "the carry effect is stronger then the feeder effect", because it really isn't at all.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727342/ (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/redirect.php?do=verify&redirect_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leaguereplays.com%2Freplays%2Fmatch%2F727342%2F)


Let me explain to you how it works in solo queue at 1300 elo.

You get an early lead and try to pressure the enemy by puhsing, however you can't do that alone, as the enemy will defend. So you tell your team. They won't listen worth jack**** 99% of the time and just try to farm. So lategame is forced upon you. Now even when you are very fed, you can't win lategame alone, because of CC. They will focus you and you will die. Then what happens is this: one guy in your team will do something extremly bad (facecheck, solo around, ad carry in melee range in fights, and and and). That will cost you the game (feeder > carry effect). Some example... I had a Taric that facechecked 3 times by himself, we could recover from 2 of those, but not from the third. Another example. Baron is up and 3 guys in your team decide to go farm bot... you can't stop the enemy baron by yourself... doesn't matter how good you are, you can't 1v5.

So, essentially, you can't win early game and you can't win end game, if your team is bad. It's really that simple. I win 99% of my lanes and I always try to pressure and win early... but if your team doesn't help all of this doesn't matter.

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727543/

Another great example. If you have an Irelia that is clueless and doesn't have Triforce at 33 minutes it doesn't really matter how farmed you are, you will just not beat a halfway decent enemy team.


http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/727543

4 big mistakes that i saw with this one, the issue wasnt the builds although i admit that i was shocked skarner took so long to get a shurelyies.

Mistake #1: early game you allowed jax to take two top towers because you took so long to stop them from doing dragon, you got lucky the first time were you guys had two people top and were outnumbered at dragon and still managed a 2 for 2 and stop their dragon. The issue after is what u guys did after both players left jax alone top and went bot to dragon. In this scenario it was 5v4 because jax was top and they started dragon again,THE SECOND that irelia and skarner showed up you should have pinged and typed etc and asked skarner to flash grab someone preferably not the one tanking dragon.

This is the reason imo its best to rush a shurelias on skarner because this engage becomes easier, the point is that they are tanking dragon and there down someone, if you had asked skarner to engage than it wouldn't even have mattered who he grabbed although the squishier the better and suddenly its a 3v5not to mention your ghost basically ending the fight before jax had taken the first top tower yet. This would have saved the second top tower, gotten u dragon and most likely mid tower as well and made this a completely different game.

Mistake #2: Some were around 20 mins you guys picked off some people and you had jax ghost, you had 2 options, try for baron or push mid, imo deciding to push mid was the right call so you guys did the right thing; HOWEVER, you guys left the second mid tower still up at low health and backed off, why? Because you made your jax ghost chase cait that was way behind the tower, had you set the jax ghost on the tower you could have taken the tower while the ghost tanked it or even engaged in a fight under the tower as the jax tanked it the entire time. Engaging under the tower might have work but it would have been risky and i prolly wouldnt go for it but i have no doubt that if you had set jax on the tower it would have gone down.

Mistake #3: Around the 30 min mark mf went to farm bot lane and got 5 man ganked and killed, obv not your fault shes bad but i didnt see a single retreat ping, it was pretty obvious that its a bad idea to be that far extended with no vision on anyone. Ping, type as hard as u can, most respond to the morde thats doing work but if she doesnt the nothing can be done other than having warded better.

Mistake #4: At around the 40 min mark you guys get baron and then skarner and everyone else fail hard at picking off anyone, fine and all but you guys decided to go straight for their mid lane. Normally this is a good idea but not in this case, you guys had an inhib down and this mistake cost you the game. In all honestly had you gone back alone or asked your whole team to back and push back out the you might have actually won this game.

The reason i say that the whole team should have backed is because they have so many hard engages, if one person were to leave it could mean the game. The jist of it is, dont push on them if your inhibs are down unless you can win the game. the fact that you guys werent able to catch anyone after the baron should have been enough for you to know that you cant insta win the game so it would have been wise to defend.


Also need i talk about the 3 person bot lane push that cost u baron, i know u pinged by ffs mf still backed to base. I cried for a full hour about this... obv had this not happened then the game could have gone either way. Imo if you had somehow stopped these mistakes 4 then this would have been an almost garenteed win.