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In your opinion, what is the largest culprit in lack of damage permanence?

Aggression Inhibitors (Turrets, Fog of War) 34 17.53%
Cost-Benefit Analysis (Why fight when farming is better?) 124 63.92%
The Existence of Healing at All 27 13.92%
Something Else (Please define it in a reply post!) 9 4.64%
Voters 194 .

Let's Talk About Health Regeneration per 5, ID Bretheren

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axesandspears

Senior Member

08-01-2012

Quote:
Malurth:
I suggested experimenting with flat +HP kind of lifesteal to Ezreal, and he said it would just be redundant, lifesteal that scales off aspd :<


The difference here is that were are talking about a Doran's item that probably would not provide more than 4 health per hit each. This is substantially lower than whatever amount you or anyone else would be thinking for another item or for a champion kit.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

08-01-2012

Quote:
Xpyder:
Well, since we're talking about HP/5... Xypherous, can you explain why cant we have HP/Second instead of HP per 5 seconds? We do not have disables with durations measured in /5 durations... or damage that deals in /5... or atk speed that is measured in /5... why do we have our regenerations in /5? just to make the numbers look big and meaninless(since 5 seconds is a freaking big time frame in a game where a 1 second stun can kill you!)? Cant we please have everything in seconds?


We do have everything in seconds.

1 health regeneration per 5 seconds is equal to .2 health regeneration per second. However, decimal numbers don't feel like they help at all, even if they are useful. By making their description be in 5 second intervals, less experienced players will pick them up being able to see the usefulness. More experienced players won't be affected by the format anyway.


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ZeroSlash

Senior Member

08-01-2012

Quote:
axesandspears:
To be perfectly frank, the champions with lifesteal just have more sustain additively with health regeneration than the rest of champions, and champions with defensive buffs (other than just bonus health) keep the bonus health from health regeneration for longer because they do not lose health as fast.. That is the only reason why they seem to have a greater effect.

Olaf, Irelia, and Nasus only seem to benefit more from hp/5, because they already have more sustain than most other champions and they maintain more when they build those same items. Health/5 is the same comparative boost on everyone with equal defense, and the effectiveness of the stat in any amount only scales up with defense.
Basically, a champion who builds regrowth pendent, cloth armor, and a nullifier mantle benefits more from his health regen than if he bought regrowth and some damage items.


That's exactly my point though. They already have large sustain... sustain is what Tops go for, unless youre Darius basically. So it only seems significant in those champs, cause it makes it useful. For other champs that make it, it does not make a bit of difference, quite honestly how few non-newbs pickup a regrowth pendant on Vayne? Possibly none, I used to do the boots +3/4 pots even before Doran's were nerfed because why I didn't have the damage, I always could outsustain them, and it wasn't for all items. Mind you pots werent nerf back then to 150hp they were 200HP. Before then, only reason Doran's were good were because they weren't 475.

Digressing, point is...it's BECAUSE it makes HP/5 more important, not because HP/5 alone is important. quite honestly this is how it works, if you get HP/5 runes.... then you skipping out on armor/MR making your HP/5 even less redundant. As for items, you need to be outright already good sustain, to even be noticeable.


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Windless Bear

Senior Member

08-03-2012

Quote:
DreamsOfGrandeur:
I personally think it's the last-hitting system.

People have a hard time fully committing, because they always have to give up last hits and have fewer opportunities to fight.



I'd really like to see LoL take the same approach as SMITE in the future.

Where you receive a certain amount of gold for dealing damage to the minions at all, while last-hitting still gives a standard amount of gold.

This way - people are more encouraged to push, and the accelerated clearing of minion waves will give them more time to pick fights with the enemy. OR at the very least, people will be forced into confrontations more as games naturally end more quickly due to pushing strategies rising up.


-------

I also personally think there needs to be a cap on Life Steal. That way, early game life steal items can be made more powerful, without the concern of stacking at any point.


I'm not sure why no one has responded to this post yet. The points it raises are completely true.

Last hitting has really stagnated combat into a battle of keeping the lane pushed to where you want it and only ever risking being hit for a second or two while you end a minion. It also makes it very difficult to share a lane with another player that is not 0 CS support because last hitting has to be so precise.

Without a doubt, life steal needs some adjusting. Being able to autoattack and both deal the most damage and out sustain your enemy while hurting them is silly, especially in that it is also used on critical hits.


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Reaper Actual

Junior Member

08-03-2012

People not knowing when to take advantage of a damaged enemy.


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Suaroth

Senior Member

08-04-2012

Keeping this bumped because some stuff is going down in here.


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Frightning

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Zelkelion:
I'm not sure why no one has responded to this post yet. The points it raises are completely true.

Last hitting has really stagnated combat into a battle of keeping the lane pushed to where you want it and only ever risking being hit for a second or two while you end a minion. It also makes it very difficult to share a lane with another player that is not 0 CS support because last hitting has to be so precise.

Without a doubt, life steal needs some adjusting. Being able to autoattack and both deal the most damage and out sustain your enemy while hurting them is silly, especially in that it is also used on critical hits.


Last Hitting hasn't stagnated the laning phase at all imo. I always lane aggressively and try to zone my opponent while getting my farm in. What is having a big effect on the way people play and the current meta, is the gold payoffs for various early game activities. In particular I think minions might be worth proportionally too much gold. As you noted it's very hard to share a lane with another champion that is farming. This is because getting last hits are so valuable that sharing them with another champion significantly lowers your own income, to the point that you can come out a duo lane that you won behind in gold.

In short, increasing passive gold income and decreasing minion gold values would be one of the quickest ways to radically change the current meta.


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Horde29

Member

08-08-2012

Quote:
Xypherous:
As a personal side note, this is a stat that I want to try to replace early life steal.

Seriously, 3% life steal? Really? That just cheapens what it means to have a real life steal item. Life steal should feel crazy/powerful/rare when you itemize/mastery/rune for it - not kind of strewn around the place. Itemizing into lifesteal should feel like you had powerful returns rather than a 'Oh hey, I upgraded my 12% lifesteal to 15% lifesteal.'

Doran's Blade switching to X Life on Hit would be an interesting experiment - though one I'd test internally for a few months. When every DPS build can become a DPS/Life Steal build for the low price of 3 Doran's Blades or a 450 Gold item - that's just kind of blah and makes substantial lifesteal something that everyone has rather than itemizes into.


Not sure if its been said before, but if normal lifesteal items were ever changed to X life on hit, then an item such as the bloodthirster could get a really cool active such as "grants 50% life steal for X seconds."

imo this would definetly feel powerful and fun and add depth/skill to game. as long as the cd was long enough, i player would have to decide to use it to sustain in lane or save it for a teamfight.


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ProfDrDeath

Senior Member

10-06-2014

An interesting thread...and a topic that possibly has merit to be revisited on the new boards.

Especially since Doran's Blade has gone full circle and arrived back at 3% LS after being changed to 5 HP on-hit and later on being nerfed to 3 on-hit for ranged.

Would be interesting to hear Xyph's conclusion on that.