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In your opinion, what is the largest culprit in lack of damage permanence?

Aggression Inhibitors (Turrets, Fog of War) 34 17.53%
Cost-Benefit Analysis (Why fight when farming is better?) 124 63.92%
The Existence of Healing at All 27 13.92%
Something Else (Please define it in a reply post!) 9 4.64%
Voters 194 .

Let's Talk About Health Regeneration per 5, ID Bretheren

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Falleth

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
and you're watching your health go up 1-2% a second.


So you have 1700/850hp? Since That's about what you are getting from 18 lvl regen and Randuin's. Colour me surprised that you find that impressive.

Quote:
Warden's Mail would almost definitely replace it in all physical matchups


And that's because there are hardly any alternatives to build into.

Quote:
people undervalue the hp/5 on Philosopher's stone


People don't undervalue it (and by people, I mean human beings able to do simple math) - you are buying sustain that's essentially free after certain period of time - there are hardly choices to make.


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TalLavi

Recruiter

07-30-2012

Hey Xyph, if you are already monitoring this thread can I ask you something.

Are there any plans about doing something with Dorans?
A Dorans item for supports? something they can stack on if they are doing bad and they have no more GP/5 to get?

Also is there a chance Dorans will be slightly nerfed (Dont forget you hit the HP stat not long ago) and follow with a price reduction so we can start Doran and red pot?


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Vuther

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Xypherous:
See above for 'Why people undervalue the hp/5 on Philosopher's stone.'

If the GP/10 path didn't exist for top lane - Warden's Mail would almost definitely replace it in all physical matchups - because that matchup would be impossible to lose after rushing Warden's Mail early.

The amazing slow probably also helps.


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mrocznykiciak

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
TalLavi:

Are there any plans about doing something with Dorans?
A Dorans item for supports? something they can stack on if they are doing bad and they have no more GP/5 to get?

Also is there a chance Dorans will be slightly nerfed (Dont forget you hit the HP stat not long ago) and follow with a price reduction so we can start Doran and red pot?


Noooooo....
The purpose of Dorans ( i suppose) is to provide easy answear for beginners. "WHat should i buy?" probably some Doran depending on the champion.

If you are support after Philo, HoG, Kage you should really go for some real item, like Aegis/Zeke/FH/WotA depending whats your goal.


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BadgerDrool

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Warden's Mail is really good. Like really good. I've started getting it as a cheap early anti-physical item. The HP5 on it's nice, but the slow/AS slow procs are the real seller. It's the cheapest way to get an AS debuff against enemy champions.


So to disagree a bit with Xyph. I don't think the Hp5 is the problem even then. It's that Hp5 can, in some cases, be icing that locks a match up. When you can trade well enough the Hp5 sustains out the damage you've taken it's really hard to deal with. It's a difficult point to reach though and usually a result of "free" Hp5.

I'd like to also point out that late game a tank with Force of Nature + Health items becomes really hard to take down. You hit an Hp5 point where if you survive the initial engagement you can back off and wait at the side lines. Then go back in when you have enough health to survive again. Singed naturally works this way. It's also more useful in more middle ground skill levels where it's more likely a chase or running team fight happens. Top players typically don't get involved in stuff like that and usually only fight full commitments.


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Dead Future

Senior Member

07-30-2012

One of the things I dislike the most about item discussions is the reference to game phases.

While it is impossible to ignore the fact that laning exists and minions exists and the rest, items catering to that specific idea rather than just being items that happen to work well in that situation is something that bothers me.

I'd like to see something that combines the HP5 stat and something else that requires genuine thought and planning to utilize, based on the amount of HP5 the user has. This would come in the form of something like an active ability that lapses time and grants HP5 as a flat heal with a low cooldown (at least, lower than average item actives, in the 20~30 second zone).

As Xypherous said, Regrowth Pendant is really efficient - literally the most efficient HP5 item in the game. This conflicts with the natural order of other stats that are more efficient at higher costs and on items with higher costs. Right now, Regrowth/Rejuvenation are base items in recipe trees and then turn into auxiliary stats as the item slides away from focusing on being largely/mostly health regeneration.


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Lovedoll1984

Member

07-30-2012

Easy solution both for hp5 and passive play.

Boost the regeneration wheen closer to an enemy champion (maybe range 700-800)

Make the base only heal for a amount every min, then we donĀ“t get the passive play and shopping all the time and the hp5 would be much more worth.


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Liath

Senior Member

07-30-2012

I'd say the only champ hp5 completely sucks on is burst-iful engage-rs. Like Fiora. oh . . .

Anyway, almost every time I play aggressive support champs, I'll take regen pendent + ward over ruby crystal or armor + pots + wards. It's incredibly useful, to me, because I can't heal my carry, but I can soak up harass for them, essentially reducing damage they take. I can also usually stay out there until I can turn it into a philo + boots + more wards on my first trip back.

For instance, with what everyone on the forum would probably call "a completely garbage" rune page, Level 1 Leona + regen pendent, I will have 31-32 hp5, and 45-50 armor/mr. Works for me!


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Doctor Swole

Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Xypherous:
See above for 'Why people undervalue the hp/5 on Philosopher's stone.'

If the GP/10 path didn't exist for top lane - Warden's Mail would almost definitely replace it in all physical matchups - because that matchup would be impossible to lose after rushing Warden's Mail early.


xyph knows this because they tested the effects of removing gp5


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XCodes

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Vuther:
The amazing slow probably also helps.

The funny thing about Warden Mail is that it's a fantastic item even without that slow. It's completely cost-effective and offers two stats that synergize amazingly well together in large amounts.

Reduce Warden Mail's Armor and HP5 by 5 each, and it's still a great item.