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In your opinion, what is the largest culprit in lack of damage permanence?

Aggression Inhibitors (Turrets, Fog of War) 34 17.53%
Cost-Benefit Analysis (Why fight when farming is better?) 124 63.92%
The Existence of Healing at All 27 13.92%
Something Else (Please define it in a reply post!) 9 4.64%
Voters 194 .

Let's Talk About Health Regeneration per 5, ID Bretheren

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Dead Future

Senior Member

07-29-2012

At the moment, it's a clutch level 1 purchase, the mechanic Dr. Mundo is based off of, and the single weakest form of sustain.

Yet, Exalted With Baron Nashor provides so much HP5 that it creates an autowin situation for the team that it is on, granted that said team isn't subject to large amounts of instant damage.

Here's a list of every item that grants HP5, and how much it grants.

  • 15 Regrowth Pendant
  • 20 Warden's Mail
  • 8 Rejuvenation Bead
  • 15 Tiamat
  • 40 (+1.75% of max HP) Force of Nature
  • 25 Randuin's Omen
  • 30 (+10) Warmog's Armor
  • 15 Philosopher's Stone
  • 25 Eleisa's Miracle
  • 30 Shurelya's Reverie
  • 10 Emblem of Valor
  • 15 Locket of the Iron Solari
  • (+15% HP5) Spirit Visage
  • 8 Doran's Shield

So, let's get down to discussion.

Health Regeneration per 5: A stat that is meant to have value in its utility over time, but actually is completely worthless in practical application because Riot Games has decided that it promotes passive play and undoes any reward that aggression might have for the players in lane fighting against someone with enough of the stat to matter.

On top of that brilliant philosophy, HP5 is the single weakest form of health sustain. The Regrowth Pendant is infamous for granting more health to the user than a Ruby Crystal given an entire minute's time. Of course, this is pretty easy to accomplish for most players, and is a common choice for lane sustain. Then, I ask, why does Darius, a champion with no sustain of his own, buy a Ruby Crystal? Because that sustain over time doesn't matter when he can just get in his enemy's face, kill them, and go back to the summoner fountain for tons of healing.

This brings us to Turrets. Towers, Turrets, Statues That Shoot Light Balls, you know the kind. These things inhibit aggression in certain areas of the map, allowing players that have purchased Health Regeneration per 5 to sit around and heal passively. This is the largest outstanding reason for why Riot Games has made HP5 as weak as it is, but it is far from a good reason.

HP5 is not something you build items for. Rather, it is something you pick a champion for. If you're not playing Dr. Mundo, Singed, Vladimir, or at least Garen, your HP5 doesn't matter. In fact, if you're not one of the mentioned champions, putting excessive emphasis on HP5 in your item build is mortally stupid.

From a balancing perspective, HP5 requires no interaction from the user to gain its benefits. You buy HP5 items, and then that green bar fills itself up more quickly. Then, I don't know, Renekton comes along with his Bloodthirstier and chops you to bits while healing for a lot more than what the regeneration you have is providing.

Even as Riot Games looks at gameplay behavior and decides, "Player X is just sitting under their turret and passively healing so much that the other player might as well not even try to kill them," in reality, the situation is more like, "If player X doesn't sit under that turret and passively heal, the other player is going to kill them."

Does one honestly think that a player in a MOBA game is satisfied by sitting under a turret, afraid of direct confrontation for fear of death? It appears that one does. Unfortunately for the rest of us, that particular "one" is the governing body on item balance.

The innate passivity of HP5 rules it out as a valuable battle utility outside of obscene amounts.

I'll be the first to hate on Singed in lane as he passively heals you to death and runs around without dying, but I shouldn't feel bad for buying a Regrowth Pendant on 90 other champions.

Discuss.


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

07-29-2012

Starting with ruby crystal is terrible and you should feel terrible for thinking it's a good choice at all. =/


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Suaroth

Senior Member

07-30-2012

I dont agree that hp5 is not useful.


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Autocthon

Senior Member

07-30-2012

HP5 is so bad that nobody ever builds Philo /sarcasm

HP5 is generally an excessively good stat, because having to leave lane to heal costs CS and experience. Why would you kill and leave lane when you can buy a Philo to kill and stay?


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mrocznykiciak

Senior Member

07-30-2012

I dont understand your problem with HP5.
Somebody is camping under tower - cool i will take my farm, and he will loose some. Lets see who will get more gold/exp from that.

Also important note which most can oversight: Vampirism vs HP5. In late game its so hard to build amount of HP5 which matter, and allow to fast restore after battle. In the same time, every AD carry with BT just pew pew some minions and is back in game.

We may use some moree % of max HP items.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

07-30-2012

I find this interesting mostly because, currently, the power of early passive HP/5 is one of the single greatest contributors to top-lane snowballing and the general dominance of the current top-tier junglers - and yet it's completely invisible to most players even as they spec into it.

People buy philosopher's stone so often - and yet what they value (the added mp/5 and gold boost) aren't the factors that cause them to destroy the lane. It's simply the raw additional hp/5 that is now effectively free for them that gives them tremendous lane control and presence.

Excessive HP/5 builds don't really work at the moment mostly because Regrowth gives you the right balance of early hp/5 to gold value to relevance in-game. You don't want to hard spec into a stat that simply doesn't matter later on. HP/5 as a whole falls off in relevance after early laning as other factors become more dominant (ultimates / jungler presence / team fights) - It's simply not a good mid-game or late-game stat when balanced for early game.

Then again.. Warden's Mail and Randuin's Omen are arguably two of the most powerful items in game - so I'm not actually sure that 'Spec'ing into HP/5' is weak either.

That said, you seem to have the seeds of your own counterargument built-in - since 'being able to survive for one minute > ruby crystal' seems like a valid strategy for most lane match-ups. If you find that 'being able to survive for one minute' is actually an impossible task for most characters - HP/5 would actually be low on my list of priorities and be more concerned with how much of a grinder top-lane has become.


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Falleth

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Then again.. Warden's Mail and Randuin's Omen are arguably two of the most powerful items in game


But that's hardly because of the hp/5 and more because of the tankiness it grants against physical damage.


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Autocthon

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Falleth:
But that's hardly because of the hp/5 and more because of the tankiness it grants against physical damage.


The HP/5 is straight up gravy. You don't realize how fast you're really healing until right after a big teamfight and you're watching your health go up 1-2% a second.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

07-30-2012

A Red in the Item Discussion forums? Surely the end days are upon us.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

07-30-2012

Quote:

But that's hardly because of the hp/5 and more because of the tankiness it grants against physical damage.
See above for 'Why people undervalue the hp/5 on Philosopher's stone.'

If the GP/10 path didn't exist for top lane - Warden's Mail would almost definitely replace it in all physical matchups - because that matchup would be impossible to lose after rushing Warden's Mail early.