Heimerdinger rework?

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SSj Heimerdinger

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Senior Member

07-29-2012

I've seen the Heimerdinger rework and notcied the few subtle hints about him, I play Heimerdinger 90% of the time and he does not need an entire rework that's just silly. He has an amazing set of skills and I personally thing rather than reworking him into something completely different, consider the following implementations:

-Increase stun range on grenade and edges slow enemies
-Make heimerdinger able to move the turret last summoned(but not control
what it attacks, this is so he can place the turrets in AFTER all the AoEs are kicked in without having to get caught and still remain useful through the whole fight instead of running literally through enemy jungle just to help support the team from a different angle, also the range for how far the turrets can go should be about shacos clones range and then after he loses the ability to move them if they go too far, he can move them again if he gets closer) OR allow heimerdinger to throw his turrets into an area, with the same range as his grenade
-Increase base health by a bit
done.
-Increase turret range to 600ish and increase health to 1,000 at level 18 or
scale off Heimerdingers AP or mana
-Fix turret AI so it will focus champion if in range, the missiles don't need to prioritize enemy champions but would be nice

An alternative idea for his speed issue:

Quote:
He doesn't need a rework, if anything he needs a mechanic tweak and that's it. He's a perfectly fine champion, hell he doesn't even need an extra turret.
If you want a passive change, make it so the less hp he has, the faster he moves. That would also compensate dramatically for him but personally I just love his passive to death, it's amazing early.
Not really brushed upon ideas but they beat the ideas currently listed as Heimerdingers rework.

P.s.
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...t-tanky-226279

He doesn't need all the extra Mana you guys are suggesting
(as shown here or here)
It just encourages spamming turrets the whole mechanics and the scrap metals will prove to bait Heimerdinger more than it would help him.
The alternate attack is a good feature but again his ultimate didn't need a change, same with his missiles.

P.p.s. I'm going to bump this until a red sees it, hate all you want..Heimerdinger has an epic skill set as it is and doesn't need to be changed.


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MyManyMinions

Senior Member

07-29-2012

You are right. he is already very solid as a champ and mid. He does well as an ap support or as a mid or sometimes as a solo top. I see Heimerdingers win mids against mages all the time.


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SSj Heimerdinger

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Senior Member

07-29-2012

Call this egotistical but I haven't lost against any AP mid and they've always had to end up ganking other lanes or having Jungler baby sit


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Tsabras

Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by liHDlGinzo View Post
Call this egotistical but I haven't lost against any AP mid and they've always had to end up ganking other lanes or having Jungler baby sit
Heimer isn't bad because he loses lane. In fact its the opposite, he's bad because he wins and pushes lanes. His skill set naturally pushes lanes and forces him to either be in a bad position and get cs or stay back and miss cs and exp. Heimer in a bad position is a free kill. His stun is horrible, his MS is bad, and he has no gap openers. Also in a meta where roaming and mobility is so strong, and iniating team fights are the standard to winning them he will naturally fall behind... a lot. His skills just don't work good for him especially in this current meta.

As you say, the other APs end up ganking other lanes. Why? Because they can and Heimer can't. If (and when) Heimer pushes lane, he has 3 options; buy, stand by turret, or continue pushing and put yourself in a bad position. Heimer roaming/ganking isn't something... reliable. Also, Why is the enemy jungler baby sitting mid? Oh I don't know, maybe that extremely squishy, zero mobility champ that is pushing lane because his skills force him too is... and this might sound crazy... but it could actually be a good opportunity to get a kill/assist.

Also, he doesn't have good synergy with most junglers, or ganking in general.


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SSj Heimerdinger

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Senior Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsabras View Post
Heimer isn't bad because he loses lane. In fact its the opposite, he's bad because he wins and pushes lanes. His skill set naturally pushes lanes and forces him to either be in a bad position and get cs or stay back and miss cs and exp. Heimer in a bad position is a free kill. His stun is horrible, his MS is bad, and he has no gap openers. Also in a meta where roaming and mobility is so strong, and iniating team fights are the standard to winning them he will naturally fall behind... a lot. His skills just don't work good for him especially in this current meta.

As you say, the other APs end up ganking other lanes. Why? Because they can and Heimer can't. If (and when) Heimer pushes lane, he has 3 options; buy, stand by turret, or continue pushing and put yourself in a bad position. Heimer roaming/ganking isn't something... reliable. Also, Why is the enemy jungler baby sitting mid? Oh I don't know, maybe that extremely squishy, zero mobility champ that is pushing lane because his skills force him too is... and this might sound crazy... but it could actually be a good opportunity to get a kill/assist.

Also, he doesn't have good synergy with most junglers, or ganking in general.
Which is why I suggested increasing his stun range, it will GREATLY assist him while pushing and his turrets do in fact benefit towards his exp. If he could get a bigger stun range with his grenade, suddenly he'll have an escape mechanism similar to how veigar has his own as well.


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Tsabras

Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by liHDlGinzo View Post
Which is why I suggested increasing his stun range, it will GREATLY assist him while pushing and his turrets do in fact benefit towards his exp. If he could get a bigger stun range with his grenade, suddenly he'll have an escape mechanism similar to how veigar has his own as well.
His stun would not be like Veigar's in any way. Veigar's stun is more like a Jarvan wall (that can't be flashed out of) than anything. A better stun is definitely something he desperately needs though.

Zyra is a good example of what Heimer needs. She's very mobile with her "turrets" and they don't push unless she wants them to them (as in there just flowers until she grows them and they don't last very long which generally works in her favor). She can also CC and summon her plants at the same time which in return gives her the ability to gank/roam/chase because she'll still be able to have team fights/ambushes on the spot and still have some of the benefit of her "turrets" which Heimer struggles to do.


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SSj Heimerdinger

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Senior Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsabras View Post
His stun would not be like Veigar's in any way. Veigar's stun is more like a Jarvan wall (that can't be flashed out of) than anything. A better stun is definitely something he desperately needs though.

Zyra is a good example of what Heimer needs. She's very mobile with her "turrets" and they don't push unless she wants them to them (as in there just flowers until she grows them and they don't last very long which generally works in her favor). She can also CC and summon her plants at the same time which in return gives her the ability to gank/roam/chase because she'll still be able to have team fights/ambushes on the spot and still have some of the benefit of her "turrets" which Heimer struggles to do.
Zyra is a whole new champion altogether, I feel he just needs movement speed buffs*maybe* and a better stun. To better cooperate himself in teams the ability to move his turrets into a team fight without directly being in there is my form of compensation towards helping him contribute and allowing him to send his turrets into a fight WITHOUT being inside of an AoE or sending them in after an AoE which would greatly make him super useful in a team fight and allowing the team to be more dynamic than focusing on trying to stay near the turrets

Alternatively he could also throw his turrets in which will fix his problem with ganking and teamfighting but I thought being able to move the turrets will provide to be more dynamic, unique and more useful in a teamfight and create a new setting for heimerdinger players where they can position and reposition not one champion but three. Instead of just assume position the turrets


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Tsabras

Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by liHDlGinzo View Post
Zyra is a whole new champion altogether, I feel he just needs movement speed buffs*maybe* and a better stun. To better cooperate himself in teams the ability to move his turrets into a team fight without directly being in there is my form of compensation towards helping him contribute and allowing him to send his turrets into a fight WITHOUT being inside of an AoE or sending them in after an AoE which would greatly make him super useful in a team fight and allowing the team to be more dynamic than focusing on trying to stay near the turrets

Alternatively he could also throw his turrets in which will fix his problem with ganking and teamfighting but I thought being able to move the turrets will provide to be more dynamic, unique and more useful in a teamfight and create a new setting for heimerdinger players where they can position and reposition not one champion but three. Instead of just assume position the turrets
I agree. Either of those 2 things would hugely solve a lot of his problems.


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SSj Heimerdinger

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Senior Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsabras View Post
I agree. Either of those 2 things would hugely solve a lot of his problems.
Now hopefully a red will see this one day @_@


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SirSmashMcCrunch

Member

07-29-2012

Yeah, these are the kinds of reworks he needs.

As it stands, it`s difficult to focus with him.

The turrets attack champions attacking Heimer... It`s fine when you have something like Cait or other squishies coming after him, but something like Alistair followed by at least one carry, AP or AD will destroy him with no contest.

I think like with Zyra, it should attack champions that Heimer is auto-attacking, or it prioritizes champions dealing the most damage to Heimer.

I also think Heimer shouldn`t have too much turret mobility, one of his main things is that he can hold a single spot for freaking ever, but the fact that he dies easily even then, makes it kind of difficult for him to be amazing. It might be nice to be able to move turrets a slight distance in any direction, so that the line of turrets can advance or retreat down or up the lane during the laning phase. Of course, moving turrets would need a cooldown, but if they`re going to do it, I`m curious how they`re going to work it in...


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