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5 Man Revive: OP

Well, duh 101 65.58%
Nuh uh 53 34.42%
Voters 154 .

5 Man Revive, the new annoying meta. DISCUSS

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FancyDan

Junior Member

07-27-2012

So is it just me, or does 5-man revive basically break dom if played well?

My beef with it is this: when played well, 5-man revive basically trumps any other possible summoner loadout. Even if your team wins the fight for top at the beginning, you still lose it unless you magically managed to win with at least 3 alive and close to full health (if that happens, the other team probably deserves to lose).

Likewise, killing someone at bot is remarkably unsatisfying. You've been poking, zoning, and pushing that Jax and you've finally broken through and gotten the kill? Guess what, while you're trying to cap your hard-earned bot tower, Jax comes right back, with items and a nice big health buff to poop all over you. It's like fighting mega-Anivia (God forbid that bot actually IS Anivia with Revive).

Granted, Revive has a pretty long CD, but once they've got your three towers, you can pretty much sit on your towers, forcing the enemy team to push hard for several minutes while you can hang back, pop a few Garrisons and wait for the CD to end.

I'm not saying that it's unbeatable. What I am saying is that it's an uphill slog that is best countered by doing the exact same thing. It makes the game less interesting and it punishes your team for NOT picking revive. One person using revive will not break the game. All five using revive at the one minute mark creates an unstoppable force early game that unbalances things from the start, much like 5 man promote used to in SR (for those of you that don't know, a team used to be able to promote 5 minions at lvl 1 to Siegeriders, pretty much guaranteeing the loss of a tower right off the bat) . To use the Devs' terminology, this is an anti-fun situation. Losing top because you barely got outplayed is part of the game. Losing top because you barely outplayed your opponent instead of stomping them into powder sucks.

To be clear, I'm not saying that ignite/flash/garrison/etc don't add utility. I'm saying that having your whole team run revive right from the start brings so much utility that everything else pales by comparison, because it ensures that you start from a position of strength compared to the enemy team, and that all other things being equal, the team running revive will almost definitely get control of top and possibly bottom right from the first skirmish, creating a snowball effect that takes a strong coordinated effort to overcome.

I'd like to hear people's thought on possible counters, why I'm right or wrong, and if there's something I'm missing. I don't want to hear about individual revive vs flash arguments. I am specifically talking about the early game "keep reviving til we got top" meat grinder opening that routinely happens in higher-level premade dom games.

Disclaimer: our usual group is terrible at using revive tactically. Also, I'm writing after losing our 4th game in a row to various all-revive teams. Call me QQ if you want


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Degenero

Member

07-27-2012

Then use Revive.

It has been nerfed and has a long c/d.


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FancyDan

Junior Member

07-28-2012

Quote:
Degenero:
Then use Revive.

It has been nerfed and has a long c/d.


1. My whole point is that 5 man Revive is better than any other loadout, making the "choice" of summoners pointless. You can take Revive and either get a huge early game advantage or break even if they did the same. Or you can take something else and be gimped for the first 100 points of the game. THIS IS NOT A GOOD SYSTEM. If there was some rock-paper-scissor counterplay, it would be a different matter. Yes, Bot Yorick stomps a lot of characters, but there's a fair number of counters to him too. If Yorick was so OP that the only response was to play as Yorick or lose bot, we would consider him broken and demand nerfs.

2. In what way is it nerfed? The Cooldown is irrelevant. Getting the early starting gold, the first 100 points, and forcing the enemy team to go all-out offensive from the start is a HUGE boost from my point of view. it doesn't matter if you don't cast Revive more than twice a game, that early boost gets the snowball rolling down your side of the hill, and that's what matters.


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Aparkhurst

Senior Member

07-28-2012

I got to "5 man revive, the new meta" then I stopped reading.


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NamKim

Senior Member

07-28-2012

Unfortunately or Fortunately, I find that I am the only one who really takes revive at my elo...

But from the streams I see and from what I hear, Revive is as necessary to Dominion as Flash is necessary on Summoner's Rift.

To be honest, I want Riot to really review each summoner skills. When it seems every player is taking the same spells in every game, there is a problem. Although, probably a bad idea for Riot to make any changes now considering the end of Season 2 is extremely close and any changes now kind of screws teams over during the championship.

Until then, we kind of have to work with what we got. Which means, we assume the enemy team will be a five-man revive, so we also make a five-man revive.


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Best ADZilean NA

Member

07-28-2012

In my opinion, revive is too strong otherwise it wouldn't be absolutely necessary to have it on all 5 people like we currently see; however, it only needs a small tweak to be balanced. The only thing wrong with revive is the health bonus it gives you. That is what creates such a strong advantage especially for the first fight at top.

Take away the health bonus and squishies who return at 1 minute mark are still squishy and therefore killable even if you're still damaged from the first round of fighting. Add in that if you choose an additional summoner like ignite instead of taking revive yourself, you balance things out by having an extra tool with which to cancel out a revive user's instant second-life effect.

The instant second chance isn't what makes revive op; it's just how valuable extra chunks of survivability are in early game dominion. In fact, to really balance revive for dominion, Riot should consider giving your health pool a DEBUFF for a short time after revive considering that dying gives you a chance to buy before returning to the battle where weak opponents haven't had time to buy yet.

This solution would allow revive to have a shorter cooldown and give people who use it more flexibility with when to use it.


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otirruborez

Senior Member

07-28-2012

flash is the same way in rift.


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Rebel Dragon

Senior Member

07-28-2012

New? Hardly.

And what others have said: it's to Dominion what flash is to SR.


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Kraogg

Member

07-28-2012

Revive new?


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bierfaust

Senior Member

07-28-2012

Nothing new about it.

If you don't take revive yourself when solo queuing then you're an idiot and hamstringing yourself.

And if a premade doesn't have 4 revives minimum then they are also stupid. Good luck winning that top back any time soon.