Kab's big thread of builds

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CEO o Dbags

Member

09-16-2010

Horrible builds due to lack of mana regen on champs that need it BADLY follow:

  1. Anivia - Seriously? Nothing worse than an Anivia who is constantly OOM
  2. Eve - Super low mana pool, huge drain from stealth and her E not to mention - god forbid - you want to farm minions with hate spikes
  3. Ezreal - Seriously? This thread is beginning to see like a cleverly crafted troll. No regen on Ez. Ok.
  4. Fiddlesticks - Doran's ring ain't cuttin it; what if somebody is jungling and you can't count on constant golem?
  5. Kassadin - First item Mejai's ... **** clever trolls. I thought trolls were dumb but they are getting smarter. How do you propose stacking it without mana? Oh yeah they buffed his Auto attack nevermind.
  6. Kayle - First item zerker's - troll fail.
  7. Morgana - Sigh. Early catalyst turns into an early ROA (aka no mana regen). You don't have enough mana regen runes to support this type of build.

Okay I'm stopping there. I should just sum this up with: Looking at your entire gruesome list of builds you only have a Meki's on Gangplank and a Chalice on Sivir. I take it you don't play many mana using champs and are just doing this for some sort bored semi-troll look-at-me-im-high-elo-its-the-first-thing-i-wrote-in-my-post ******edness.

Just goes to show Elo doesn't necessarily mean as much as some make it out to.


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reaver99

Senior Member

09-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabb View Post
Now there's a post worth replying to!
I'm glad you take well to criticism, props.

Quote:
Lets start at the start then, I like snowballing items and they always come in handy, especially when I'm loosing. And I just played a game with Akali and didn't get SOTO, to begin with I felt crippled in the beginning due to not having the spell vamp I get from Long Sword (And I know that can be remedied with runes/masteries but I don't have either) So I'm afraid I quite like SOTO on Akali.
When you're losing is the worst time to get snowball items. If you can't kill anyone, you won't be able to charge it up, which means you still won't be able to kill anyone. You need power right NOW to turn the tides. If you're losing, there are several things you can do, but snowball items are probably the last choice.

My advice is to get elixirs. Why? They give a huge power boost for a cheap price. If you're losing then the other team will likely be stronger than you. Elixirs will bring you closer to their level while you have less gold in total. It's temporary, but the idea is to try to shut down one or two killing sprees during that time, which will give you enough gold to turn the tides back in your favor.

Secondly, buy wards. Sounds counterintuitive, since you're already down on money and you need every bit you can get, but they are a solid investment. When you're down, you need to avoid fighting and focus on farming, especially if you're a carry. If you're losing, the other team probably has more map control than you and you can't farm without being ganked, which leads to a rapid snowballing of the other team. By warding your side of the map, you can regain map control and farm in peace while avoiding ganks. How many creep waves do you let die unfarmed because you had to stay in your base to defend a potential push? Wards mean that you can farm those waves without having to stay in your base and without getting ganked. It also means that you have the potential to gank one of the opposite team if they become overconfident and stray too far, and lets you backdoor if necessary. Wards and elixirs are key to making a comeback.

Quote:
I don't put much emphaphize on my Cho build being good, I use him mainly for fun since he's really just a joke as a tank and I'd rather play most others before him. But you know what, I'll look into him tomorrow and see if I feel like I should change something. I kinda like Deathfire on Eve, you stun with Q, throw Deathfire and then ravage BAM most of their health gone and I don't really like Rylai's all that much on her, she's hardly ever going to be chasing someone for long enough for it to be effective, and even then it only gets a 15% slow from her Q.
Warmog's is bad on Cho since he has so much natural health, and you get better returns building armor. It's also just... not that good. I can see Deathfire on Eve working as an extra nuke so you're welcome to keep it, but Rylai's is good not just for the slow but for the HP. Even if you cut down most of their HP in one hit, Eve is so squishy that some champions can just turn around and kill you faster than you can kill them. It also can get you away from enemies far enough to restealth.

Quote:
I disagree with you on Kayle, at every point. A lot of people commented about me getting Mejaji's on her when I used to main her but when I saved them with a 400-500 heal, they didn't complain, not to mention AP scales with 4 out of 5 of her abilities. I do get elixirs of course but I left them out of this since they are really situational. I'll also go through my Mord build, I don't like his or Cho's right now, but trying to type out builds like this for tanks is extremely difficult as I'm sure you can imagine.
Ability power is great on Kayle but while her support is fantastic early on, she is one of the best ranged carries in the game and it's a shame not to play her like one late game. She doesn't need such a fragile power boost as Mejai's and can steamroll the other team late game without it.

Quote:
My Nidalee build works perfectly for me, but I'll go through it yet again just for you!

I don't want to rush Banshee's on Nunu, if he won't have any damage he's useless. And besides, you don't really need it early game. Manamune is probably great on Sivir, I agree with that much and I'll see about throwing it in there, I've yet to update the list with the new item. Urgot does not need Manamune in my opinion and I think Xin should be built a bit more tanky than what you propose, and neither does Youmuu's active proc on him.
I haven't played much Nidalee but her strongest point is her spears and poke game. If you're going to build her as a hybrid carry there are better options (like Kayle).

Nunu's main damage comes from his ultimate, and Banshee's helps his ultimate get off. Sure, he can throw a few snowballs around but their range is short and it's his only low cooldown nuke so he doesn't really bring much to the team as a mage. It might be worth getting RoA first just to let it charge up though. It's up to you, I prefer a tank build.

I'm not sure how you avoid running out of mana on Urgot but if it's been working then fair enough. I'm not sure what you mean by Youmuu's not proccing on Xin, it increases attack speed? I like armor pen on Xin because his ultimate does physical damage, but tanky builds are fine too.

Quote:
Thanks for the feedback, you helped a lot. Keep it coming by all means.
Glad to help.


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t3hcollective

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09-17-2010

I would just like to mention that it is a waste to level up Zil's ult past level 1 at all. Rewind will ensure it is back for every fight and the duration increase of your E is much more beneficial. You also want rewind and bombs maxed out asap.


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Lawful

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09-17-2010

Okay! First thing that came to mind when you read the name of the thread
kat's big

xP ?


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peyo

Senior Member

09-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by omadisaster View Post
Kassadin - First item Mejai's ... **** clever trolls. I thought trolls were dumb but they are getting smarter. How do you propose stacking it without mana? Oh yeah they buffed his Auto attack nevermind.
ee... actually, Mejai's is the only item in place over there. And I'm sorry, but AA staff sucks, if you meant that.

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=193513

learn how to play with your base mana or keep being useless with your Tear.

btw, your skill builds are also terrible in some cases.


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cy4n1ze

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09-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBolas View Post
Very nice thread, so useful to have this information quick and easy in one place when you're trying out new heroes (as I am at the moment).
Thank you, it means a lot to me that this helped someone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
akali, cho, corki, kassidin, malzahar, mord, nidalee, nunu, sivir, soraka, trist, and vlad.
i don't know enough about urgot or xin to really say, but they seem suspect.

i'll let eve, garen, and teemo pass since i think they're weaker champions generally speaking (they're "situationally good").

some other builds are bad, but only because of the build order or one missing item. i didn't bother to include them since they don't need to be redone so much as they need to be adjusted. there are a few that are fine as they are.

and generally speaking, you rely more on %-based penetration than you do on flat penetration. flat penetration is really good early game, and remains great versus their squishy champs if you stack it. putting more flat pen earlier would help out, especially since your builds are so expensive that they'll rarely reach the %-based penetration item in them (if they have one at all).
I'll admit to Cho, Mord and Sivir being less than optimal and I'll try to take a look at them. I however do not see a problem with any of the builds of the other champions you mentioned. I am also considering getting items like Youmuu's on more ranged champions but have been hestitant to do so up to now because ranged champions don't proc it's active.


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cy4n1ze

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09-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBolas View Post
Jax is pretty tough to build. You've got the first item right, though. Doran's Shield. If you go for Vampiric Scepter or Cloth Armor or Boots of Speed with some hp pots, you don't have enough healing to stay in lane very long vs ranged harassers like Miss Fortune.

Boots of speed are good too. Frequently you do need to get an earlier vampiric scepter because that allows you to pick off some jungle mobs for buffs and so on.

Guinsoo's Rageblade is fine, same with Frozen Mallet and Trinity Force. Another good item for Jax is Hextech Gunblade, but that tends to be pretty expensive to build. You can get Stark's if nobody else on your team is going for it, the aura helps the team.

Generally Jax suffers from not enough magic resistance (your boots won't be Merc Treads, after all), so you almost always have to build some kind of magic resist item early on. If the enemy has five mana users (especially 3 or so with small mana pools) then Wit's End can be a good item on Jax, to pump up your mana. Another situationally good item on Jax is the Quicksilver Sash, also primarily for the magic resist. You can get the Negatron Cloak and then wait to upgrade until late game when you need the debuff removing effect.

I would probably drop the Atma's Impaler and put a Hextech Gunblade in the build instead.
Thanks for the helpful tips, I put Vamp Scept right after his core items and threw Hextech in there along with a Negatron cloak and Quicksilver.

Could you also recommend a skill build for him by any chance? I've only really played Jax once or twice so I don't trust my knowledge about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by omadisaster View Post
Horrible builds due to lack of mana regen on champs that need it BADLY follow:
  1. Anivia - Seriously? Nothing worse than an Anivia who is constantly OOM
  2. Eve - Super low mana pool, huge drain from stealth and her E not to mention - god forbid - you want to farm minions with hate spikes
  3. Ezreal - Seriously? This thread is beginning to see like a cleverly crafted troll. No regen on Ez. Ok.
  4. Fiddlesticks - Doran's ring ain't cuttin it; what if somebody is jungling and you can't count on constant golem?
  5. Kassadin - First item Mejai's ... **** clever trolls. I thought trolls were dumb but they are getting smarter. How do you propose stacking it without mana? Oh yeah they buffed his Auto attack nevermind.
  6. Kayle - First item zerker's - troll fail.
  7. Morgana - Sigh. Early catalyst turns into an early ROA (aka no mana regen). You don't have enough mana regen runes to support this type of build.

Okay I'm stopping there. I should just sum this up with: Looking at your entire gruesome list of builds you only have a Meki's on Gangplank and a Chalice on Sivir. I take it you don't play many mana using champs and are just doing this for some sort bored semi-troll look-at-me-im-high-elo-its-the-first-thing-i-wrote-in-my-post ******edness.

Just goes to show Elo doesn't necessarily mean as much as some make it out to.
I lol'd.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

09-17-2010

Suggestion for sivir skillbuild:

R>Q>W>E, but get 1 point of E at lvl 2 or 4 depending on your lane opponents. Boomerang blade is effective harrass when you get the trick of it, ricochet can bounce to enemy champs to let you harrass as you lasthit, and an early point in spell shield is good for obvious reasons. Plus you can bait people into wasting a spell and giving you mana.

Edit - consider manamune in place of chalice, too. I know she doesn't build up the charges as fast as some champs do, but it fixes her mana problems just fine and provides a decent amount of AD. Of course, if you're going for an aura build then a chalice is cheaper and lets you start on other items faster.


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cy4n1ze

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09-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaver99 View Post
I'm glad you take well to criticism, props.


When you're losing is the worst time to get snowball items. If you can't kill anyone, you won't be able to charge it up, which means you still won't be able to kill anyone. You need power right NOW to turn the tides. If you're losing, there are several things you can do, but snowball items are probably the last choice.

I often do get criticized for getting snowball items when loosing, but when it stands that you will definitely loose if things go on like they have been you must just rely on getting a really lucky ace on the other team, I can't tell you how many times I've turned a game around because I got Mejaji's or something and then got lucky and got stacks.

My advice is to get elixirs. Why? They give a huge power boost for a cheap price. If you're losing then the other team will likely be stronger than you. Elixirs will bring you closer to their level while you have less gold in total. It's temporary, but the idea is to try to shut down one or two killing sprees during that time, which will give you enough gold to turn the tides back in your favor.

I do get elixirs like I said, I just didn't put them into this build list because of how situational they are. I think you lost track of what we're talking about here.

Secondly, buy wards. Sounds counterintuitive, since you're already down on money and you need every bit you can get, but they are a solid investment. When you're down, you need to avoid fighting and focus on farming, especially if you're a carry. If you're losing, the other team probably has more map control than you and you can't farm without being ganked, which leads to a rapid snowballing of the other team. By warding your side of the map, you can regain map control and farm in peace while avoiding ganks. How many creep waves do you let die unfarmed because you had to stay in your base to defend a potential push? Wards mean that you can farm those waves without having to stay in your base and without getting ganked. It also means that you have the potential to gank one of the opposite team if they become overconfident and stray too far, and lets you backdoor if necessary. Wards and elixirs are key to making a comeback.

All useful and great tips.. but again, I think you lost track of what we were talking about here.

Warmog's is bad on Cho since he has so much natural health, and you get better returns building armor. It's also just... not that good. I can see Deathfire on Eve working as an extra nuke so you're welcome to keep it, but Rylai's is good not just for the slow but for the HP. Even if you cut down most of their HP in one hit, Eve is so squishy that some champions can just turn around and kill you faster than you can kill them. It also can get you away from enemies far enough to restealth.

I know Warmog's is probably not ideal for Cho'Gath and I do get a lot of **** for building it on him, but I don't really care. I don't consider him a tank I would play in ranked like I said and I mostly just play him for fun, but I will look into it since I've posted my builds and people will want a decent build for him.

As for Eve, the HP doesn't really matter, and if you can't kill someone with your initial burst as Eve, you're probably already dead. And if you're being chased by someone that's close enough for you to hate spike them (I.E melee dps) you're again probably already dead.

Ability power is great on Kayle but while her support is fantastic early on, she is one of the best ranged carries in the game and it's a shame not to play her like one late game. She doesn't need such a fragile power boost as Mejai's and can steamroll the other team late game without it.

Ability power also scales with her E by the way, further improving her damage. I consider Mejaji's great for her and I believe I will keep doing so.

I haven't played much Nidalee but her strongest point is her spears and poke game. If you're going to build her as a hybrid carry there are better options (like Kayle).

Her spears become practically useless late game unless you're managing to hit their squishies with it which you shouldn't be able to do. But like I said, I'll look into her build.

Nunu's main damage comes from his ultimate, and Banshee's helps his ultimate get off. Sure, he can throw a few snowballs around but their range is short and it's his only low cooldown nuke so he doesn't really bring much to the team as a mage. It might be worth getting RoA first just to let it charge up though. It's up to you, I prefer a tank build.

I prefer more of a hybrid build myself, obviously and he will be very tanky with the items I get on him.

I'm not sure how you avoid running out of mana on Urgot but if it's been working then fair enough. I'm not sure what you mean by Youmuu's not proccing on Xin, it increases attack speed? I like armor pen on Xin because his ultimate does physical damage, but tanky builds are fine too.

I must admit Urgot is part of the group that "I don't play" since I've only tried him once on a friends account and I pretty much copy-pasted Phreak's champion spotlight build.

UNIQUE - Gives 20% movement speed and +50% attack speed for 4 seconds.Attacking enemy units with melee attacks increases the duration by 2 to a maximum of 8 seconds. 60 second cooldown.

It doesn't proc that and only lasts 4 seconds, I believe it is a bug and have reported it. But until then, Youmuu's is not an item I want on him.

Glad to help.
Thanks for taking time to write up a response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hcollective View Post
I would just like to mention that it is a waste to level up Zil's ult past level 1 at all. Rewind will ensure it is back for every fight and the duration increase of your E is much more beneficial. You also want rewind and bombs maxed out asap.
I believe that it takes 20 seconds off of the CD every level and adds 250 health to the target when revived aswell. I really don't see how that isn't worth levelling.. :/


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cy4n1ze

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09-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawful View Post
Okay! First thing that came to mind when you read the name of the thread
kat's big

xP ?
Harrdy harr harr
Quote:
Originally Posted by peyo View Post
ee... actually, Mejai's is the only item in place over there. And I'm sorry, but AA staff sucks, if you meant that.

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=193513

learn how to play with your base mana or keep being useless with your Tear.

btw, your skill builds are also terrible in some cases.
I agree with you, he does not need mana regen. And if you would be so kind as to point out which skill builds in particular are bad? I'd love to improve my list further.