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Kab's big thread of builds

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cy4n1ze

Recruiter

02-17-2011

Another couple of updates to the builds, been a while since I bumped this, figured I would.


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CrazyBolas

Senior Member

02-19-2011

Quote:
Carados:
If you completely ignore what I say and make up my argument, can I do the same to you?

Because if so, I do agree the name "CrazyBolas" is terrible, but you shouldn't be so self-depreciating.


Well... let me see if I can better explain the steps in the thinking.

You are criticizing Kab's builds. Correct?

Either you are *****ing/flaming/whining/trolling for no purpose, or you offer an alternative better choice than what Kab proposes and it is constructive criticism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are offering another alternative to his proposals. Or do you admit you are nothing but a whiner?

So looking through your posts on the thread, we see a distinct lack of alternate proposals to Kab's builds. So the only alternative you could then be espousing (since you didn't post any alternates, nor link to any other one-stop-shop build lists) would be the default builds to which everyone has access.

So this seems a bit ludicrous to me, since Kab's builds seem obviously a bit better than the default builds. So I ask for clarification, hoping that you will answer with one of the three reasonable options -- whiner, alternate builds posted, or espousing the default builds. Yet you don't clarify your position, all you do is name calling.

So that leads me to realize that "whiner" is the correct answer to why you are posting on the thread. Not here to help the community but just to troll.


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cy4n1ze

Recruiter

02-20-2011

I find the best way to deal with people like that is just ignore them, Bolas. Some posts are just not worth a response.


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Carados

Senior Member

02-20-2011

Quote:
CrazyBolas:
So looking through your posts on the thread, we see a distinct lack of alternate proposals to Kab's builds.

Trolling, or blind? Can't decide.

Did you ignore them, or are you just making up I never proposed any, and then he held his fingers in his hand and yelled LA LA LA LA IM BETTER THEN YOU?

Okay. Let's try this again:

Akali: Gunblade. No. Gunblade is at best, situational when you're so far ahead. It's not an effective damage item, especially compared to Void Staff, which isn't on the build.
Evelynn: You're going AP.
Gangplank: Investment Bankplank is a bad build, considering you're a champion that's best midgame and you're putting off doing anything until late game.
Jax: Frozen Mallet is strictly worse then Rylais, even on AD. At the point where you buy Gunblade, Infinity Edge and Bloodthirster will both be better damage items.
Karthus: You're leveling up E before W.
Kassadin: You're starting with Amp Tome or Doran's Ring on a champion who needs potions. Sapphire + Potions.
AD Kat: You still kinda want a Rylais.
Kayle: By the time you buy a Gunblade, Deathcap and Lich Bane are both more efficient damage items. You're buying a Trinity Force with AP >> 150% base attack. What? Did you think this out?
Kennen: You level your W first, actually. It gives the best harass in lane.
Master Yi Lane: You want a Doran's Ring to start.
Mordekaiser: Bead into Warden's Mail is a much, much better start then what you have here. Actually, scrap this entire thing.
Olaf: W is his weakest skill, and the last leveled. You jungle with your Q. Olaf does not need a Frozen Mallet, as his Q is effectively Frozen Mallet at range.
Poppy: Read this build really quickly.
AP Sion: Grab Death Cap before Sheen and watch your games improve.
Sivir: Sivir does not need a manamune. Or any mana item. If you need more besides runes, it's user error and you're gimping yourself to build around you playing badly.
Soraka: lol
Teemo: AP Teemo will always be a bad build. Copy paste the Kog'Maw build and you'll be closer then you are now.
Vlad: 9/21/0 thank me later.
Xin Zhao: Xin Zhao needs a Phage as much as Ashe does. Watch Bob stream, or something. This is the worst advice on your builds, and that's saying tons. Frozen Mallet on a person who can keep a single target disabled forever is worthless.


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cy4n1ze

Recruiter

02-22-2011

Quote:
Carados:
Trolling, or blind? Can't decide.

Did you ignore them, or are you just making up I never proposed any, and then he held his fingers in his hand and yelled LA LA LA LA IM BETTER THEN YOU?

Okay. Let's try this again:

Akali: Gunblade. No. Gunblade is at best, situational when you're so far ahead. It's not an effective damage item, especially compared to Void Staff, which isn't on the build.
Evelynn: You're going AP.
Gangplank: Investment Bankplank is a bad build, considering you're a champion that's best midgame and you're putting off doing anything until late game.
Jax: Frozen Mallet is strictly worse then Rylais, even on AD. At the point where you buy Gunblade, Infinity Edge and Bloodthirster will both be better damage items.
Karthus: You're leveling up E before W.
Kassadin: You're starting with Amp Tome or Doran's Ring on a champion who needs potions. Sapphire + Potions.
AD Kat: You still kinda want a Rylais.
Kayle: By the time you buy a Gunblade, Deathcap and Lich Bane are both more efficient damage items. You're buying a Trinity Force with AP >> 150% base attack. What? Did you think this out?
Kennen: You level your W first, actually. It gives the best harass in lane.
Master Yi Lane: You want a Doran's Ring to start.
Mordekaiser: Bead into Warden's Mail is a much, much better start then what you have here. Actually, scrap this entire thing.
Olaf: W is his weakest skill, and the last leveled. You jungle with your Q. Olaf does not need a Frozen Mallet, as his Q is effectively Frozen Mallet at range.
Poppy: Read this build really quickly.
AP Sion: Grab Death Cap before Sheen and watch your games improve.
Sivir: Sivir does not need a manamune. Or any mana item. If you need more besides runes, it's user error and you're gimping yourself to build around you playing badly.
Soraka: lol
Teemo: AP Teemo will always be a bad build. Copy paste the Kog'Maw build and you'll be closer then you are now.
Vlad: 9/21/0 thank me later.
Xin Zhao: Xin Zhao needs a Phage as much as Ashe does. Watch Bob stream, or something. This is the worst advice on your builds, and that's saying tons. Frozen Mallet on a person who can keep a single target disabled forever is worthless.

Oh my, actual feedback from you. That's a first. Lets go through the list then,

I like it a lot on Akali, it gives her loads of spell vamp, more than most champions due to her passive. But she's a champion I don't play much and when I do I normally don't do very well. However, until I find out that either A) Gunblade is bad on her. B) Find a better substitute for Gunblade.

As for Evelynn, yes, you can pat your extraordinary observational skills on the head now.

Gangplank: What do you suggest as an alternative?

I do not play Jax, I got that build from a friend who mains him. I belive he's at 1700-ish at this point.

Again, give those astounding observational skills a pat on the head for your remarkable analysis of my Karthus build. (Ps. E is by far more important than W in most situations.)

Kassadin, I play him from time to time (I just played a normal game with him a minute before writing this.) and I have yet to come across the problem of desperately needing two potions, perhaps that's just me though.

AD Kat: Not a bad idea, I think I'll throw that in there as an option. Again, don't play this champ.

Kayle, now this is a champion I happen to know about having played her quite a lot in low elo while climbing at the start of the season, I love, nay, I adore Gunblade on her, I like to think that it was made for her. Lichbane and Deathfire Grasp are both mediocre in comparison.

Kennen is another champion I don't play very much at all but I'm relatively sure that if you manage to hit Q it's a much better harrassing tool than W and E has some remarkable benefits (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kennen_The_Heart_of_the_Tempest) for levelling it.

Yi: No, I don't, that's 475 gold down the drain.

For Morde, I quite like the build as it is and getting an early Warden's Mail/Randuin's Omen is just not as good as either of the two other options that cost about as much that I put down on the current build.

Olaf, I think this is just a difference of opinion. I think W is his most vital skill and I doubt I'll change my mind until someone proofs to me that it isn't one way or another.

I just read my Poppy build, I assume we're done with that then.

Whoops, I think the Sion build might be a victim of a vicious editing bug, I remember editing Zhonya's Ring out of that and making adjustments shortly after the patch. I'll take a crack at it again.

Now for Sivir, I don't like playing her, I used to love it.. now, not so much. I took a light swipe at her after she got the buffs due to Aura-Sivir not being the least bit of viable anymore. (Not that it ever really was..) I will try to look at her again.

And Teemo, I think I made some post about him. I don't see Teemo being viable in any kind of serious game, he simply isn't good enough, especially with the game like it is. So I figure that if you're going to play him, you might aswell have some fun with it and go AP Teemo (http://www.muninn.is/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/troll_face.png).

Vlad! You are of course quite right, that is a mistake on my part.

Last but not least, Xin. 700 health, 20 damage and that little bit of extra slow, no, I don't think it's useless. Xin despite his many qualities, cannot keep a champion permamently disabled, he needs to keep up. Frozen Mallet helps with that.



All in all, most of your criticism/feedback was pretty shallow (With admittely a few valid ones here and there which I do really thank you for.) and now I'm not claiming that my builds are perfect in any way but I really do doubt anyone could claim that rightfully without having writing them as it's full-time job and even then it would be a shaky claim.



Anyway, thanks for taking your time to write this up, I appreciate it.


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Carados

Senior Member

02-22-2011

Quote:
Kabb:
I like it a lot on Akali, it gives her loads of spell vamp, more than most champions due to her passive. But she's a champion I don't play much and when I do I normally don't do very well. However, until I find out that either A) Gunblade is bad on her. B) Find a better substitute for Gunblade.

A) You don't need spellvamp. You already have spellvamp. Unless stacking Emblems of Valor is an effective Nasus build, stacking Spellvamp on Akali isn't a good build. Increasing your damage output is far, far better then increasing your spellvamp coefficient.

B) Other items will give far and away a better damage output. Especially penetration items.


Quote:
Kabb:
Gangplank: What do you suggest as an alternative?
Manamune ---> Ghostblade ---> etc.

Quote:
Kabb:
(Ps. E is by far more important than W in most situations.
W gives a better damage increase until you have a large amount of AP, meaning late game. E is more important, but not early game.
Quote:
Kabb:
Kayle, now this is a champion I happen to know about having played her quite a lot in low elo while climbing at the start of the season, I love, nay, I adore Gunblade on her, I like to think that it was made for her. Lichbane and Deathfire Grasp are both mediocre in comparison.
The problem is
A) She doesn't do enough physical damage that Life Steal is a good buy.
B) Her primary damage source doesn't get spellvamped, only her Q.
C) As far as the AP and AD go, DeathCAP and Lich Bane both deal more damage.

Quote:
Kabb:
Kennen is another champion I don't play very much at all but I'm relatively sure that if you manage to hit Q it's a much better harrassing tool than W and E has some remarkable benefits (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kennen_The_Heart_of_the_Tempest) for levelling it.
W is a better harassing tool because you can get one mark on someone, and even if you keep missing Qs (like they're dodging) you can prevent that one mark from ever going away, and even just keep adding to it, as the CD becomes less then the duration of the mark. It's guaranteed stuns. Q is your second to be leveled.



Quote:
Kabb:
Yi: No, I don't, that's 475 gold down the drain.
It's better then losing your lane because you started with an item that gives you no ability to harass and no ability to sustain harass.


Quote:
Kabb:
Olaf, I think this is just a difference of opinion. I think W is his most vital skill and I doubt I'll change my mind until someone proofs to me that it isn't one way or another.
Each level of his W gives 7 damage and 3% Life Steal and Spellvamp.

Each level of his Q gives 40 damage, and 4% slow at range.

Each level of his E gives 60 damage, and 1 second off the cooldown.

Q is his primary jungling skill and E is his primary damage skill.

Quote:
Kabb:
I just read my Poppy build, I assume we're done with that then.
I love the suggestion of both a Lich Bane and a Trinity Force.




Quote:
Kabb:
And Teemo, I think I made some post about him. I don't see Teemo being viable in any kind of serious game, he simply isn't good enough, especially with the game like it is. So I figure that if you're going to play him, you might aswell have some fun with it and go AP Teemo (http://www.muninn.is/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/troll_face.png).
Teemo is viable at high level play, but only if you do the Malady Bloodrazor builds.

Quote:
Kabb:
Last but not least, Xin. 700 health, 20 damage and that little bit of extra slow, no, I don't think it's useless. Xin despite his many qualities, cannot keep a champion permamently disabled, he needs to keep up. Frozen Mallet helps with that.
Uhh, actually he can. With 14%~ CDR. His W, E, and his Q can keep a target permanently disabled forever.

If you can't, it's user error.

E, W Q, hit twice, slow wears off, pop up, hit twice, E is now up, hit, Q is now up, repeat.


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Kalshazzak

Senior Member

02-22-2011

your poppy build has a Lich Bane and Trinity Force in it, are you sure you reread it........
And voidstaff/mejai's is much better bang for your buck than Hextech.(this is in an ap build, which yours is kind of a mutant ******* one.)

Carados is right about mallet on Xin, thats alot of money to be able to so something Xin can already do.(ghost/YGB help you keep up if they manage to slip out of the disables)


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cy4n1ze

Recruiter

03-04-2011

Quote:
Carados:
A) You don't need spellvamp. You already have spellvamp. Unless stacking Emblems of Valor is an effective Nasus build, stacking Spellvamp on Akali isn't a good build. Increasing your damage output is far, far better then increasing your spellvamp coefficient.

B) Other items will give far and away a better damage output. Especially penetration items.


Manamune ---> Ghostblade ---> etc.

W gives a better damage increase until you have a large amount of AP, meaning late game. E is more important, but not early game.
The problem is
A) She doesn't do enough physical damage that Life Steal is a good buy.
B) Her primary damage source doesn't get spellvamped, only her Q.
C) As far as the AP and AD go, DeathCAP and Lich Bane both deal more damage.

W is a better harassing tool because you can get one mark on someone, and even if you keep missing Qs (like they're dodging) you can prevent that one mark from ever going away, and even just keep adding to it, as the CD becomes less then the duration of the mark. It's guaranteed stuns. Q is your second to be leveled.



It's better then losing your lane because you started with an item that gives you no ability to harass and no ability to sustain harass.


Each level of his W gives 7 damage and 3% Life Steal and Spellvamp.

Each level of his Q gives 40 damage, and 4% slow at range.

Each level of his E gives 60 damage, and 1 second off the cooldown.

Q is his primary jungling skill and E is his primary damage skill.

I love the suggestion of both a Lich Bane and a Trinity Force.




Teemo is viable at high level play, but only if you do the Malady Bloodrazor builds.

Uhh, actually he can. With 14%~ CDR. His W, E, and his Q can keep a target permanently disabled forever.

If you can't, it's user error.

E, W Q, hit twice, slow wears off, pop up, hit twice, E is now up, hit, Q is now up, repeat.

Akali, it's not "stacking" spell vamp if you look closely at Hextech Gunblade, you might notice that it has other stats than spell vamp. Including damage, AP, a slow etc.


I really see no reason at all to buy a Manamune on GP, maybe you could explain to me the theory behind that?


As for Karthus, I'm keeping it that way. I simply think it's better.


Kayle:
A) Not all that much gold is wasted on the lifesteal, and she does get some use out of it, though limited.
B) I assume by "primary source of damage" you mean E, on which I'll question what you mean by that, since I just played a game and I spell vamped from my E.
C) Dunno about that, but hell, I added both into the build as neither are actually bad choices.


Master Yi, kay.


Olaf: I'll look into it.


Poppy: Thanks!


No, I am in high level play half the time, even though some people decide to play Teemo, he is simply not as good as other carries and therefor not viable.

Quote:
Uhh, actually he can. With 14%~ CDR. His W, E, and his Q can keep a target permanently disabled forever.

If you can't, it's user error.

E, W Q, hit twice, slow wears off, pop up, hit twice, E is now up, hit, Q is now up,
Your W is down. What do you do? Besides, it's for health too.


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cy4n1ze

Recruiter

03-04-2011

Quote:
Kalshazzak:
your poppy build has a Lich Bane and Trinity Force in it, are you sure you reread it........
And voidstaff/mejai's is much better bang for your buck than Hextech.(this is in an ap build, which yours is kind of a mutant ******* one.)

Carados is right about mallet on Xin, thats alot of money to be able to so something Xin can already do.(ghost/YGB help you keep up if they manage to slip out of the disables)

I did the calculations, when you get Lich Bane you have about 200 of AD and AP with that build.
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Poppy/?items=28,70,114,91,108,88&level=18
Although I've never actually gotten as far as Lich, I kinda reckoned that they would stack with eachother. (A quick google search revealed otherwise, I've removed it now.)

And I've found Mallet and an early phage massively helpful, I'm afraid I won't be changing that.


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cy4n1ze

Recruiter

03-07-2011

Updated Kassadin build, made it a lot more complicated but hopefully a lot better aswell.