Support Lulu.

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Tila Tequila

Senior Member

07-25-2012

Hi everyone,

I wanted to know your opinions about support Lulu. I love supporting as her but sometimes I feel she is a bit weaker at laning phase than other supports: Sona can harass better than her, and restore the health back if they take damage in a trade.

Sometimes I think that Lulu is equal to Vayne in terms that she has an amazing teamfight control (so her mid-late game is good), but is a bit reliant on very specific conditions to win early game:

I've noticed that many ADC players are not used to play with a Lulu as their support, so they don't know when to attack or retreat (Do any of you feel the same?).

Lulu does really well against non-sustain squishy champions (I'm very confident to say that I've won most of the -Insert an AD here- + Janna lane).

I think that Lulu is kind of strong against kill lanes (considering a correct-defensive runes/masteries setup).

Lulu is an amazing partner if she is supporting a high-poke ADC.

Even though she can be really good at laning phase, I think she's lacking of something. Maybe more base damage, so she can be more deadly against high sustain duos (ex: Soraka, Sona, Taric), and be more threatening against killing lanes?

Maybe more "sustain"? Improving her shield (not the damage, but the HP protected). I don't know.

Edit: clearly her movement speed is a huge problem, since is not he idea to use Whimsy on yourself.

Here is a good analysys that resumes pretty well her weak points (trying to gather all the information in one big thread, =) :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Panic View Post
Note: Riot has mentioned that Lulu will be getting buffs in the future.

Lulu might sound good on paper with her seemly having all the ingredients for a support champion, but in practice she's "meh" because she suffers from large problems/inherent weaknesses that cripple her overall strength as a champion (relative to other supports).

1) She is too slow.
2) Her spell ranges are too short.
3) Her spells are mostly targeted in nature.

The combination of with 1), 2) and 3) = she isn't always able to get to get intended targets and thus suffers from execution problems.
ex. Janna doesn't suffer from his problem because she's fast and able to in and out quicky.
ex. Soraka just needs to press R to execute her ult for full effectiveness.

They don't suffer from usability constraints like Lulu.

4) Her skill opportunity costs are too high - her spells are "tied up" - if you polymorph, you can't speed up someone for a getaway. Similarly, if you choose to attack with E, you can't shield anymore. Her skills often don't synergize with each other or adapt well to a situation.
5) High mana dependency and often goes OOM without haven't done much.

Compared to Soraka, which has no mana, mobility or execution problems, being simple, yet effective, Lulu even if she can do a lot more, just has too many usability issues.

Less is often more, which is why Lulu is "meh".
Leave your thoughts here.


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Tila Tequila

Senior Member

07-25-2012

Bump. I would love to see a red posting here, so he/she can share his thoughts about Lulu played as an actual support.


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Tila Tequila

Senior Member

07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SplendidClaw View Post
Just started playing support lulu, she's a blast to play. I usually only pick her based on the comp though. I do agree that it's hard to justify picking lulu over any other support based on her kit alone. Her auto attacks do quite a bit of damage though, so I think one of the more important things to get used to is depending so much on auto attacking as a form of harass.

Her ult, however, is absolutely worth picking her for your comp if it fits. Certain heroes can absolutely dominate team fights with a correctly timed ult.

I'm looking at you Nocturne, Nocturne+Giants Growth=stupid strong.
Yes! I also think that Lulu is a good counter if the enemy team has lots of assassins, since her spells can be targeted either at your partners, or the enemy (ĄDie Olaf/Poppy, die!).


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Tila Tequila

Senior Member

07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SplendidClaw View Post
Oh, another thing I found out, she actually shuts down Leona lanes really hard.

If Leona dives, wait for the opposing AD carry to follow up, and then hit him with W. By the time he's out of the polymorph, the stun from Leona should have worn off, as well as the bonus damage from her passive(she MIGHT be able to get one stack of it on, though). Still, I've played her three times against a Leona+AD lane and each time I've sort of controlled it by getting rid of the threat of Leona dives completely.
Yup, ! It kinda works against Blitz too.


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Nomspie

Senior Member

07-25-2012

Lulu is very versatile. Unfortunately she's slow and her spell ranges bring her in fairly close. This is further complicated by her mobility spell being tied to her poly. I love playing her though because she's fun in lane, useful and noticable in teamfights, her ultimate is hilarious, and I love her character design.


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Datata

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Senior Member

07-25-2012

In laning phase, she is effective if either of the carry bot are squishies (vayne, ashe, twitch ..etc).. either she spams her abilities on the opponent's carry or rely on your teammate's damage by supporting with her passive and sheild.

She fits very well for escaping and chasing in team fight

"Even though she can be really good at laning phase, I think she's lacking of something."
You will notice the enemy damage pile up in sustaining/laning fights. Healing prevents the damage stacks. She lacks a healing spell but it is not necessary to add since her sheild minimize that problem.


I believe she is perfect the way she is in supporting.


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Korben

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Senior Member

07-25-2012

I agree. she's very mediocre.


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Tila Tequila

Senior Member

07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datata View Post
In laning phase, she is effective if either of the carry bot are squishies (vayne, ashe, twitch ..etc).. either she spams her abilities on the opponent's carry or rely on your teammate's damage by supporting with her passive and sheild.

She fits very well for escaping and chasing in team fight

"Even though she can be really good at laning phase, I think she's lacking of something."
You will notice the enemy damage pile up in sustaining/laning fights. Healing prevents the damage stacks. She lacks a healing spell but it is not necessary to add since her sheild minimize that problem.


I believe she is perfect the way she is in supporting.
Sometimes if she's passively supporting, the enemy AD does way more damage than the AD that Lulu is supporting (since her source of damage has been used in a defensive way <her shield is not as strong as Janna's>, and you have to get really close if you want to neglect the enemy AD damage <Whimsy>. And if you do that, depending of who is their support, they can end winning that fight pretty easily).


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KirbyCake

Senior Member

07-25-2012

the problem is that if you land your e-q combo 100% of the time against any sustain comp, you will oom before thier sustain.
IE lulu is more viable in solo lane where her e-q combo can actually kill somebody.

Her mana costs are simply WAY too high to actually be used to support.


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fudrud

Member

07-25-2012

So heres my initial thoughts on Lulu. First off I think that damage wise she is fine, shes not a kill lane champ but shes def. not banana level of Soraka.

1. Where I think a big problem with her is that she has no appeal to playing her as a support. All of her abilities can be used as support but can just as easily be used as an AP cast on the enemy champions, and she is not a half bad mid laner either. Whereas with champs such as Leona you don't see her played in other lanes because she won't be procing her passive unless the jungler ganks. So her at the bot / duo lane is a lot better option. Now if Riot was to change something about her abilites maybe make them do less damage to enemies and make it more appealing to play her as a support and use her to support your team mates she would be more appealing but currently even if you do play Lulu in bot lane with an AD carry it is better to use your abilities to do damage rather than to keep your ad alive because you will come out of the fight on top where if you support you will usually not in the current meta due to the amount of kill lanes there currently are.

2. Her shield is not big enough. End of story. Now i know what you are saying right now "but fudrud Janna is the same amount!!!" And yes this is true at level 5 they are both 240 damage but Janna has a 0.9 AP ratio whereas with Lulu it is a measly 0.6 that is HUGGEE difference. Even with the little bits of AP you have as a support that is huge. So make that bigger lower the damage or change the ratios, and the range is short too btw.

3. Her ult is just meh. It doesn't change the fight. Supports are supposed to change fights. Janna resets the fight, most have a ton of CC, soraka make you kill everyone twice! Lulu just pretty much goes hey here do another 600 damage to this dude! And in a game that you are behind that is nothing. If you are even just 4 kills behind, even CS and even turrets / dragons / Barons, that is NOOOOOOOOOOOTHING. It doesn't do enough to change the fight in the right hands. You can be behind 50-1 and with a good janna ult you can win the game. Now don't get me wrong its a good idea because it takes people off your carry but the knock back is just not far enough for most people who are on your ad carry to care. Oh look you made me take another second to kill your ad Oh noees. Needs a re-work / change / update.

4. People who play Lulu play her wrong. Already mentioned this earlier. People play her to support rather than do damage. She should be used to do damage not to keep your ad alive but still able to keep your ad alive if needed. I used to play a lot of DotA before League came out and in that you rushed items that gave you the ability similar to Polymorph. ITS AMAZING. Not only do you demoralize the enemy by making them a bunny they can't do anything and run very slowly towards you for a second or two that's insane!! But what I usually see Lulu players doing is using this ability to buff their AD's AP!!!! I'm Ashe I don't want AP!!! and most ADs agree with that. Also unfortunately its leveled last. I think one thing Riot could do is change this AP bonus to AD, but don't make it Janna shield level make it something like 25 at level 5 not a lot but still something to make it worth leveling. Plus the other problem is in team fights yes, 60 more AP on your AP carry is a lot but by then they are using it as polymorph. These are the problems with Lulu, she can do a lot but usually there are better options.

Overall I think she is a great champion but just like when Skarner was released she doesn't have a role in the current meta game other than maybe AP mid. She just needs some tweaks and she will be right up there with the Janna's and the Taric's as best support and there is just better than Lulu to do her job and I feel like there always will be, knockups get janna, poke or kill get a kill lane support, sustain get soraka.


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