Darius OP??? prove it?

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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aevinter View Post
Read his stats, look at his kit. This is a self-explanatory kind of thing, dude.

P.S. I'm complaining about both.
His stats and his kit?

Okay, Riot has designed a melee bruiser whose core burst damage skill (aside from his ultimate) is designed to make him anti-melee, which means he's a good counter-top champion because the meta says "send your bruiser solo top" and most people obey the meta pretty religiously.

His E and W are designed to keep a target in close combat, if he gets them then he's sticking to them. Fantastic, considering he has no MS steroid until AFTER he's in range.

His R is designed to be a finishing blow, and it works best against players who focus on building Armor/MR over HP, and it works best against champions who do not have shields/heals.

His kit lacks defense while giving him pure offense, unlike most bruisers who have some of both. This makes him extremely squishy (on the level of "Ashe carrying a Giant's Belt") if he goes straight offense or even the normal bruiser build of half and half. He has to build far more defense than offense in order to survive late-game combat, but if he builds straight tank then his damage output is going to be pretty much ignored.

As his kit lacks any form of mobility to initiate combat, he requires positioning where the enemy will try to run, or he needs to hide where he might be able to grab one and thoroughly beat them up by himself. The ability supposedly has 550 range, but apparently with the way the skill is coded, it's closer to 450, meaning ANY ranged DPS except Urgot, who's more of a ranged AD caster, will be able to auto attack him from outside his range.


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blissless

Senior Member

07-25-2012

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Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
The ult is irrelevant.
loll keep telling yourself that bro.


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blissless

Senior Member

07-25-2012

by the way, notice how in the first vid darius is spamming Q in the tight area near the lizard where the team fight was taking place? it's because at max rank it's on a five second cooldown (without CDR), isn't reduced by multiple hits (in fact it's monstrously buffed if you're in the outer hitbox, poor varus with his skillshot equivalent is crying in a corner) and applies his passive debuff to everyone who gets caught. does riot still want to try explaining why hecarim's Q does reduced damage to minions (like it does anything to begin with)?


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JustMyBassCannon

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07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by blissless View Post
poor varus with his skillshot equivalent is crying in a corner
Yes, because a skill shot around 1500 range and 150% the scaling--not to mention it's total instead of just base AD scaling--is TOTALLY an equivalent comparison with a 425 AoE strike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blissless View Post
does riot still want to try explaining why hecarim's Q does reduced damage to minions (like it does anything to begin with)?
Hecarim has his Q and W, which not only put out good damage but also sustain him (and his W is the only source of True Vamp in the game, healing from ALL damage types). His Q also has 2 seconds CD with no CDR when he gets it going, that's 250% the speed of Darius' Q.


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Dragull

Senior Member

07-25-2012

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Originally Posted by Grailums View Post
I was ganked by Evelynn as Ashe while I was at 85% health and she was at 45% health. Both level four.

I barely escaped to my turret with 10% health left and she had 35% health left.

So while I took out 10% of her health, she took out 75% of mine.

And this is considered balanced?
Yes because when you get too late game you will 0-100 in 3 seconds and stay full health.
Ashe is weak early because she scales better late game.

Does Darius scale worse than Evelynn?


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by blissless View Post
loll keep telling yourself that bro.
taking things out of context isn't very nice ya know


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blissless

Senior Member

07-25-2012

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Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Yes, because a skill shot around 1500 range and 150% the scaling--not to mention it's total instead of just base AD scaling--is TOTALLY an equivalent comparison with a 425 AoE strike.
uh, yeah, it really is. the latter puts out far more damage (because it's not reduced AoE) and is far more dangerous because of the passive debuff. it even has a much lower cooldown/mana cost (in fact the mana cost on darius' Q is virtually non-existent).

just about every non-ultimate AoE in the game is either balanced by very low damage/difficult to apply damage (vlad's pool) or reduced damage on multiple targets (hecarim's Q, orianna's Q...). darius' Q does not follow such a trend, and it's part of the reason why even though he's just a silly pubstomper, he has a horrendous kit design that even morello is starting to admit was bad from the get-go.


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JustMyBassCannon

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07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by blissless View Post
uh, yeah, it really is. the latter puts out far more damage (because it's not reduced AoE) and is far more dangerous because of the passive debuff. it even has a much lower cooldown/mana cost (in fact the mana cost on darius' Q is virtually non-existent).
Per target, Darius' Q deals 210+0.7 bonus AD within the first 270 range, and then all others in the 155 outside of that take 315+1.05. If you look at the entire AoE range, the ring where they actually take maximum damage is small, outside of 1v1 or 2v1 situations it's impossible to gauge multiple hits in the maximum damage zone. But, just for the sake of your argument, let's just say Darius was positioned perfectly and hit all 5 enemy champions at max damage. That's 1575+5.25 bonus AD damage.

Now Varus' Q deals 215+1.6 total AD to the first target, and 15% less damage per target (multiplicative reduction, iirc). If he lines up a shot that hits all 5 champions, that totals at...[lots of math]...797+5.93 total AD damage. Adding his level 18 base AD (100) makes it equal to 1390+5.93 bonus AD.

More importantly though, you're comparing a 100% melee champ whose maximum range skill is 475 to a ranged DPS whose auto attack range is 575 AND has two CCs built into his kit with maximum ranges greater than 900. I see zero cases in which Darius beats Varus in which Varus was not out of position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blissless View Post
just about every non-ultimate AoE in the game is either balanced by very low damage/difficult to apply damage (vlad's pool) or reduced damage on multiple targets (hecarim's Q, orianna's Q...). darius' Q does not follow such a trend, and it's part of the reason why even though he's just a silly pubstomper, he has a horrendous kit design that even morello is starting to admit was bad from the get-go.
Hecarim's Q isn't reduced by multiple targets, it's reduced on minions. Garen's E is not reduced by multiple targets either and is insane damage. Skarner's Q doesn't follow this "trend" either, and it even doubles its damage after the first hit lands, not to mention slows very much. I could probably name a few hundred AoEs that don't follow this "rule" that doesn't exist anywhere except in your mind.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by blissless View Post
he has a horrendous kit design that even morello is starting to admit was bad from the get-go.
I may be wrong but didn't they say they wanted him to be "cooler"


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

07-25-2012

Can't find a vid of darius with the reverie I guess I'll just buy him and try it.