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Optimal Autoattack DPS.

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Eat dat chammich

Senior Member

09-08-2010

I'd wager that a Stark's and Black Cleaver combo is way up on the list of top auto attack damage items. Putting your target at negative armor is a down right silly damage increase.


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Silverdevilboy

Senior Member

09-08-2010

Stark's/black cleaver is in theory very very powerful...but you have to already have attacked 5 times to get the full effect. In a game where you focus fire and barely get 3 or more attacks in a teamfight, that seems a bit weak.

Last whisper is one of the best dps items going. You argue that last whisper increases your damage by a lot if you have no other armor pen, but if you spend 4k, your marks, and masteries on it, another item might be better?If you itemise to get flat Arpen, %-based is bad. Doesn't mean that on a normal champ, 40% aspd, 10 AD, and 32 Arpen is bad.


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JohnCataldo

Senior Member

09-08-2010

Black Cleaver is at its best after 5 attacks, but it's still excellent on even the first attack. Compare the cost/damage for IE/BT (the other BF sword items), and it's pretty reasonable.

Obviously there are other considerations and that's not the whole story, of course. Cleaver is best for attack speed champions who want a damage item and do sustained damage. IE is better for "burst" damage with critical chance instead of attack speed. Bloodthirster needs charging, and is a bit better on healthier champions where you can exploit the lifesteal more, or the various champions who have abilities keyed directly off attack damage.


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Silverdevilboy

Senior Member

09-09-2010

Actually, I took what seemed to be the average base armor at L18. As I said, these do not include masteries and runes, mainly because I wanted them to apply to every player, new or old alike.

As for the numbers, I did a very simple analysis based on aspd, AD, and crit chance, with the formula changed if you bought IE. Then, since I saved money by using a couple of hybrid items that give more for the gold cost, I dropped a little under 500 gold on the armor pen in LW, giving me the most ArPen for the smallest price, which when I ran the numbers, gave the best DPS I found.

I'm now in the process of writing up a spreadsheet that, when you feed in your champion's stats, and the Armor/MR (or average Armor/MR) of the enemies, tells you what item is most efficient to buy next. (i.e. gives the most additional DPS/Cost.)

I don't think that following it directly will give the perfect item set, but it will make you more effective earlier on than the perfect item set.

I'm also trying to introduce a bias into it based on the number of attacks you make on average in one set of attacks, as if you make only 1, Aspd is less effective than if you make 10. (It makes a difference to have high aspd, and that difference is higher for melee champs than ranged ones.)

However, I'm struggling to collect data. I'm trying to collect it by watching old streams of players playing dps champions, but many of them do much of their damage via skills, too. I may well have to run a completely separate calculation for every melee dps champion, based on their skills and cooldowns and everything else that makes things complicated. This was intended to be a simple calculation, though, so for now I'll stick to the basic autoattack dps.

In reply to a few old posts, BC isn't bad, but compared to a fair few other items it's lackluster in it's effect on your dps, especially since the 250% crits from IE make crit chance a hugely valuable stat, and BC has no crit chance, and I can't 'fix' that with one item with over 30% crit chance...because there aren't any.

I will consider it as an item, but I can only really count the passive once I have all the data and do the complicated analysis including average numbers of attacks per target chosen, etc. IMO, it's not one of the best designed items, not synergising together as well as it could have done. If it had been a little cheaper, and given 50% Aspd instead of the AD, I'd have been very interested....but as is, it's only average on most champions bar Corki, Trist, and Warwick.


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