The problems with Dominion, as I see them

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0shi

Senior Member

07-22-2012

DISCLAIMER: I'm terrible and don't know why I bothered to write this.

In order of severity. It's worth mentioning that alot of this applies to TT, the other offspring outside of wedlock (which needs alot more work than Dominion) as well.

1) Not visible enough
This has a trickle-down effect on everything else, so it's the most important. Possible solutions:
- Dominion featured streamer / s
- Front page announcements for Dominion tournaments ("This weekend, check out Dominate Dominon #xx at TheFeedski's Twitch channel")
- League of Legends home page conversions to Dominion tournament live links as has been done for major SR events in the past
- "Play against the devs in The Crystal Scar" weekend
- "Extra rewards for The Crystal Scar" weekend
- More mention of Dominion in champion release videos
- More mention of Dominion in general Riot posts (If asked a question, answer with respect to problems / solutions in dominion as well as SR)
- Allowing posts regarding Dominion in general discussion
- Regard it as more of a headline product than it is now ("Sick of MOBAs? Try Riot's new Dominion game type, now with twice as much PvP!"). Alot of older players will *NEVER* switch from SR or regard anything else as relevant, but people new to the genre / game should be willing to try other things

2) Not played enough
Prevents Riot from having the motivation to balance properly, prevents Riot implementing ranked for fear of increasing queue times further. Very tightly coupled with (1), heavily affected by (3) and affects (4). The map needs to be more visible to be more played.

3) Not incentivised enough
It doesn't have to be ranked, but giving players a way to track their own progress and compare themselves to others would go a massive way towards making people more motivated to play the map. I'm open to ideas.

4) Not balanced enough
Frankly, it's not that bad (that sentence is completely false for TT, I should mention). The problem is that there are some massive outliers to "not bad" that have remained problematic patch after patch. Badly balanced leads to less respect for the map as a whole, which leads to less people playing it.
It was very good to hear that this is something that is intended to be changed, but bad to have fears about balance being ignored in the past to be confirmed... And worse to see the biggest offenders ignored in the patch.

5) Revive hasn't been disabled for the map
The map is too small for Revive, and swings a pretty significant amount off the first fight for the top point. I'm sure you could modify it with masteries in the way that the mercenary mastery has a reduced effect in Dominion (have the Summoner's Resolve mastery grant less / no movement speed on Dominion etc), but frankly I don't think the other Summoner Spells will ever compete with it fully, just for those moments where you swing the entire game based on being able to clean-up a single fight.

Takeaway message - Get Dominion out there and everything good can follow. Unicorns, dragons and candy would be only days away.


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Orphane

Senior Member

07-22-2012

Why do you think Revive is a problem?


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Lindre

Member

07-22-2012

It's mandatory. It's flat out better than any others and doesn't have a counter except from another Revive. You effectively only get one summoner spell on Dom, although it's the same with Flash on SR. Which honestly, should be removed as well. Nothing should ever be so good and far and away superior to all other options as to be absolutely mandatory.

Edit: Downvoting doesn't make it less true. Lulz.


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irott

Senior Member

07-22-2012

I take Revive/garrison on every champ, whether im top or bottom.

Since I play almost nothing but Dominion I have pretty much forgoten how to flash and when to ignite. I played a bunch of proving grounds games lately and I was so confused.


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Orphane

Senior Member

07-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindre View Post
It's mandatory. It's flat out better than any others and doesn't have a counter except from another Revive. You effectively only get one summoner spell on Dom, although it's the same with Flash on SR. Which honestly, should be removed as well. Nothing should ever be so good and far and away superior to all other options as to be absolutely mandatory.
How many times have you seen people use Flash poorly only to die anyways, or even flash in the wrong direction, causing an instant death? Likewise, how many times have you seen Revive used poorly? Having Revive doesn't mean you automatically beat someone who does not have it (on the contrary, it is of no use to you until you are dead, unlike Garrison, Exhaust, or Ignite) - people who can Revive at the correct times will make for more interesting games than those with nobody using Revive correctly or at all. Is Revive's prevalence so big of a problem, then?


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AAARRRRGGGGGHHHH

Senior Member

07-22-2012

cute


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larkhill

Senior Member

07-22-2012

1. agreed. riot needs to talk about dominion more. the problem is that what do u talk about? SR has a $5 million prize pool, consistent tournies that get tens of thousands of daily viewers, streamers who get thousands of daily viewers, and an entire community of people who follow it, including sponsors. putting dominion in the same light as SR would be a horrible marketing strategy. the minute people see dom mentioned in the same channels as SR usually does (like featured streamers and such), people will compare the 2 and theres simply no comparison. riot needs to create new channels to promote dominion and those simply take too much time.

i think theres a real possibility of making dom popular as a medium for lore battles. the crystal scar is inherently steeped in LoL lore a lot moreso than summoners rift is. if we held lore matches sponsored by riot, people would get a lot more interested and it wouldnt create that deadly comparison of SR vs dom.

2. u cant force people to play it. riot can advertise it all they want but u saw what happened when it came out. balancing issues were terrible in the beginning and it was abandoned. u cant force people to have an opinion.

3. riot's stance is that its simply not ready for it yet. i wont sit here and tell u all the balancing issues because we all know them by now. what happens when u incentivize something? people strive to attain it. and do u know how people do that? they play overpowered champs and toxic strategies. ranked play would simply be who can lock in more overpowered champs. we need to fix the balancing BEFORE any incentive to play dom is given.

look at the DD tournaments. we see it every single time. theres always a new team that doesnt know who the overpowered champs are or doesnt know how overpowered revive is and they lose first round because of it. every single time. its disgusting to watch and it must feel even worse for that team knowing that no matter how skilled they are, flaws in the mode will force them to lose the game.

4. this really does need to be fixed before anything else. we're in the right direction with dom-specific nerfs to kass but we need A LOT more work before we can even come close to a balanced game mode. and quite frankly, i dont see nome alone being the catalyst to getting these things done. i wish him luck though...

5. just because revive is mandatory doesnt make it a problem. SR has flash mandatory. riot doesnt seem to care at all. theres a reason we have 2 spells available to us and not just 1. as long as we dont have 2 mandatory summoner spells, riot wont care.


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SonsofaBastages

Senior Member

07-22-2012

You're right about visibility.
Revive is rarely a problem.
I keep hearing about these long queue times, but for me Dominon has about 1/3 as long a wait as SR.
Let's do ranked.
Balance should be based around SR, but then all other maps and modes should have a set of champ specific "map buff/debuffs" that ensure the game is balanced no matter what you play.

The #1 biggest problem with Dominion is the non-objective based game play. There is no large objective: to cap and hold bases you need to cap and hold bases, to destroy the enemy base you have to do a lot of diverse things. This isn't really anything that is fixable but should be kept in mind by Riot as they move forward and crate new game modes.


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larkhill

Senior Member

07-22-2012

i think dom has a huge potential to grow if they reworked the jungle. adding a few objectives similar to TT jungle might make it a bit more fun to watch.


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0shi

Senior Member

07-22-2012

Larkhill, for some reason your name makes me think of a prison, or perhaps a cemetary.
Very interesting point in regards to incentivisation, however, I have to point out the fact that TT has a ranked mode, and is far less balanced than Dominion.
While I agree with you in principle, it seems Riot doesn't... Additonally, I don't feel that Dominion balance is far off enough to completely discard the idea of rewarding / recognising the players of it.
Finally, Nome's posts in this TT thread http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2295198 seem to imply they're holding off based on population concerns not balance concernts

Regarding Revive, another good point, but I'm pretty certain Flash is unable to be changed / removed because so many champions are built around its existence and require it to perform their job on SR (flash initiate, carry reposition etc). Revive, on the other hand isn't required by anyone. It's just too freaking good.

EDIT: And I couldn't disagree more about the Dominion jungle, it's just not thematically appropriate to the map. While I personally think its already a blast to watch and play, I would definitely take a different approach to making it less static (If it were static, which I contend it isn't) such as providing more points for holding positions on their side of the map than for the two which can be reasonably considered "yours" and the Windmill.
The way it is now, you put yourself in a pretty risky position taking a fourth at top, with reduced enemy respawns and a close respawn, you really need to be in the lead to risk it. If (more like Arathi Basin) there was a less straightforward set of tactics than "Obtain Windmill. Hold Windmill" stuff could get pretty interesting.