AP Xin Zhao (Not trolling)

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HonorableGeneral

Senior Member

07-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilderoy View Post
Appreciate the suggestion, seems really good as well so i'll try it out.

Only thing I would change is Hextech Gunblade, and why would I do this? The Spellvamp from Hextech won't prove very useful, thou it is a good item for picking.
What do you think about Yomuu's? Armor penetration and cooldown reduction + Arpen and some AD + Unique active providing a large AS boost.

I just wouldn't give up every AS boost since the heal procs faster the more AS we stack, so if we discard Berseker boots I would reccomend taking some other item replacing it.
About on-par with Gunblade. The two have slightly different purposes.

Ghostblade does more damage combo-wise since you'll be using your abilities more often, and the armor pen is good, but the AS boost simply doesn't compare healing-wise to Gunblade (remember that Xin heals flat HP per 3 hits, where life steal and spell vamp scale with the rest of his items).

The main reason to pick Ghostblade is if the enemy team lacks effective escapes and damage. When you engage, you'll do a ton of damage in a short amount of time and if the enemy attempts to run away you can just pop the active and catch up. Ghostblade is a must-buy so long as the enemy team is weaker than yours. In essence, perfect snowball item. If the game ends by mid-game, before the enemy gains sufficient damage, you'll be able to wreck them. If the game continues, however, you'll find your healing inefficient since CC will prevent you from grabbing enough hits to heal. Unlike Gunblade, which heals every hit (for a sizable amount if your full build is up) Ghostblade relies on you getting in 3 rapid hits to heal up. If an enemy CCs you, you might be unable to get the 2nd and 3rd hit in fast enough to survive.

The main reason to pick Gunblade is if the enemy team has effective escapes (Flash doesn't count since you can Flash as well) or if the enemy team does a lot of damage. Since Ghostblade doesn't heal quite as much, Gunblade allows you to engage and the tons of healing you'll get basically mean you can duel anyone. Also, Gunblade's active means that you can effectively stop anyone from escaping. Even if they have an escape (like Tristana's leap), you can drop Gunblade's active on them and E + Q to catch up and CC. Ghostblade gives you speed, but sometimes that's not enough when champions escape over walls (and you've already popped flash).


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kavinh the third

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Senior Member

07-23-2012

isn't ap xin really weak in team fights and only good for backdooring?


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

07-23-2012

You seem to be spending a lot of money for this sustain.

He gets what? 0.7 AP every 3 hits? Or was it 1.0? I forget. (edit, yeah its 0.7)

Anyways, even if its 1.0 you spend 20 gold for 0.33 health per hit, or 60 gold per 1 health gained. This doesnt seem very efficient.

With 100 AP (2000 gold worth), thats 33 health per hit gained. (its 0.7 so its about 20 health per hit gained)

By way of comparison a 450 gold Vamp Scepter (assume 200AD) would give you 20 health per hit (plus any extra from crit and bonus physical damage from Q, minus their armor n stuff).


So while its nice that Xin can marginally use AP, I wouldnt make a build around it.


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Guilderoy

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07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
You seem to be spending a lot of money for this sustain.

He gets what? 0.7 AP every 3 hits? Or was it 1.0? I forget. (edit, yeah its 0.7)

Anyways, even if its 1.0 you spend 20 gold for 0.33 health per hit, or 60 gold per 1 health gained. This doesnt seem very efficient.

With 100 AP (2000 gold worth), thats 33 health per hit gained. (its 0.7 so its about 20 health per hit gained)

By way of comparison a 450 gold Vamp Scepter (assume 200AD) would give you 20 health per hit (plus any extra from crit and bonus physical damage from Q, minus their armor n stuff).


So while its nice that Xin can marginally use AP, I wouldnt make a build around it.
You're forgetting that you still can add lifesteal items and make a healing mix between your physical heals and your passive heals.
Also, the difference between the common AD build is the fact that you can actually backdoor many turrets without taking damage, that makes him highly valuable considering everyone died except for Xin and you don't have time to wait for minions.


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HonorableGeneral

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
You seem to be spending a lot of money for this sustain.

He gets what? 0.7 AP every 3 hits? Or was it 1.0? I forget. (edit, yeah its 0.7)

Anyways, even if its 1.0 you spend 20 gold for 0.33 health per hit, or 60 gold per 1 health gained. This doesnt seem very efficient.

With 100 AP (2000 gold worth), thats 33 health per hit gained. (its 0.7 so its about 20 health per hit gained)

By way of comparison a 450 gold Vamp Scepter (assume 200AD) would give you 20 health per hit (plus any extra from crit and bonus physical damage from Q, minus their armor n stuff).


So while its nice that Xin can marginally use AP, I wouldnt make a build around it.
Remember that life-steal doesn't work on towers. Backdooring mandates that you either be able to tank effectively or heal at the towers. Xin is one of the few who can do the latter, which is much cheaper than attempting to stack armor and "out-sustain" a turret.


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Guilderoy

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07-23-2012

Okay, I'll update this guide later since I have tried a really better way to survive early game.
I just went top on a ranked match against a Darius and won the lane, around 10~15 mins he was 0/4 and I had a really good sustain making harder for jungler to gank me.
I got boots and 3 pots at the start, then I went for a Vampiric Scepter and later, a Blasting Wand.
This way you'll progressively heal on each hit, and every 3rd hit too. I also managed to survive the bleeding with those items whenever a exchange of blows came up.
Try that out and tell me.


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Guilderoy

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07-25-2012

http://leaguecraft.com/lnk/1nc

Check that out, 6 hits in 5 seconds (it's not considering W active) + 449 HP gain from lifesteal during those blows, + ~400 HP gain every 3rd hit provided by our passive. This makes an impressive 1200 HP recovery after performing 6 attacks.
You can also replace Rod of Ages with Trinity Force to maximize the power of this build.

PS: By the way, i think this kind of build is the best way to counter thornmail.


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Frozty Reap

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07-25-2012

Try ad xin mid. Check my scores on lolking. You can easily burst down any mid champ at level 2. Start e then q. E in land q, e off cooldown, heres a kill.


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Guilderoy

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07-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozty Reap View Post
Try ad xin mid. Check my scores on lolking. You can easily burst down any mid champ at level 2. Start e then q. E in land q, e off cooldown, heres a kill.
I don't know... I don't think this is quite the best idea. If you go Xin ad mid, you will have to put the AP champ top and who knows how might that come out.


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HonorableGeneral

Senior Member

07-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilderoy View Post
I don't know... I don't think this is quite the best idea. If you go Xin ad mid, you will have to put the AP champ top and who knows how might that come out.
If your problem is that you have to put the AP top, pick Kennen or Vlad. They do well top or mid due to not needing blue buff.

Now, if you have problems with Xin mid despite that, I can see your issue.

Xin mid is VERY susceptible to ganks because he has no escape (unless you E to an enemy minion, but that's pretty rare) and because all his skills require him to be in fairly close range to deal damage.

If you get ganked by someone like Warwick, you'll be so out of position that he'll destroy you.

Only way I'd see mid Xin working is if it's specifically to counter Talon mid, or if you get a lot of ward coverage and a lot of jungle ganks. Otherwise, you'll get eaten alive.


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