Rise of the Thorns: Designing Zyra

First Riot Post
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ZVATTO

Junior Member

07-20-2012

Legendary skin like Ez's with the little morganas and ashes running around, i think so XD


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Loganinsane

Junior Member

07-20-2012

inb4 Nah we just copied poison ivy


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ploki122

Senior Member

07-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
The seed interactions are brand new. You can't "hatch" things out of placables in another MOBA, and you certainly can't choose which spell hatches which plant minion.

You may or may not like Zyra, but she is new and fresh, objectively.
Well... from my point of view, Yorick does a very similar thing and so do Heimerdinger... Basically, hatching plants is exactly the same as creating towers except it requires 2 clicks, it also serves the exact same purpose as ghouls, being an added damage/utility to the initial burst.
The only point I would see that "hatching" procedure really unique would be if the seeds weren't so useless by themselves... They really can't be used for much more than brush checks right now and can't be dropped for long-term gains, meaning that all they really are is an added DPS to your Q/E burst... So basically, it's not that I don't like Zyra, it's more that I find her seed a little disappointing. Also there isn't really any situations where I would like to raise my W first... If you scaled the duration of seeds with the W level, that would be a whole other matter. Then again, I think that the real reason i'm disappointed is that she's probably the only champ that doesn't have 4 abilities... All champs would be OP if by level 5 they could have maxed any of their skills. I don't see a level 5 Zyra with level 5 W a threat to anyone in my team no matter what her role is...

So basically, W makes her kit seems worse than she really is... Even though I understand that there had to be a mechanism to drop the seeds, I find that Zyra having only 3 real abilities kinda sad...


EDIT : Just to make sure that point was clear, Since there is now a hard cap to the number of seeds you can lay-out at once, I don't see any problem to raising their lifespan. Actually, if the W raised the seed cap (like 2/3/3/4/4 on you and 3/3/4/4/5 on the ground), it would actually gives an incentive to leveling up W (Do I want stronger burst/DPS or more seeds/plants). If it raised the lifespan it would also helps it feel like an actual ability (30s is too low for a ward, you lose half of its time placing it and going back to lane)


~edited many times to make sure it actually reflected what I thought... but should be done editing now...

P.s. Don't take this personal, I actually really love both your work and Zyra... It's just that I feel like LoL's best point is his champions and I really feel like this one isn't perfect... The only other time I felt that way is Darius' nerf... but that is another matter for another wall of text one day... Brace yourself CertainlyT, I'm coming (one day, for now you've got Zyra's tweak way over your head... and btw gj keeping up with PBE's flow of reports...)


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Death Junior

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Member

07-20-2012

So what is the reason your not releasing her yet? She's fine and frickin fun as hell! (played her on the PBE) Did someone make a big point about how her mechanics are "stupid"? If so can someone send me a link to the thread? Because I've heard no one complain on the BPE (besides stuff about her copying other characters, but I'm talking mainly mechanics here)!
And for all the questions about her seeds
She only has two seeds because she only has two different plant minions (although you can have one or more of each type). And with a 7 second cooldown seeds aren't really a problem! (the max is like having 6 plants alive for like a split second)


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Longsworder

Senior Member

07-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
The seed interactions are brand new. You can't "hatch" things out of placables in another MOBA, and you certainly can't choose which spell hatches which plant minion.

You may or may not like Zyra, but she is new and fresh, objectively.
I'm sorry, but I feel the need to disagree here. I assume you're familiar with TVTropes, so I direct you to their Overly Narrow Superlative article. Conditional pet effects have been done before - look at Yorick's pets, a different one summoned based on which spell he uses. Conditional pet generation has been done before - look at Mordekaiser's ultimate, which "hatches" things out of enemy champions. Abilities that upgrade pets have been done before - I direct you to Heimerdinger's Upgrade. AoE knock-ups have been done before, line-shot snares have been done before, damaging AoEs have been done before, post-death passives have been done before, skill shots have been done before, vision granting has been done before, deployables being destroyed by stepping on them has been done before... all from just LoL, I might add.

I could make a global cone skillshot, and it would be a never before seen mechanic in LoL at least, but that wouldn't make it terribly original - after all, it's just an extension of a cone skillshot's range. Unique, but not something found in LoL beforehand. I could make a skill that teleports me to a target enemy, but, again, not terribly original - Shen's ultimate used on an enemy. Unique in LoL, but not original. Just because we haven't seen a specific case of these mechanics working at the same time doesn't mean we haven't seen the mechanics themselves before. Sure, if you want to quibble the specifics, she is unique, but no part of her kit has underlying mechanics that have not been used elsewhere in the game and thus, I say, is not unique.


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MareksGregs

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Member

07-20-2012

What the f?
It's just another champion, why all these posts?
is it because it's Morello's champ?


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EnderForHegemon

Senior Member

07-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ploki122 View Post
All champs would be OP if by level 5 they could have maxed any of their skills. I don't see a level 5 Zyra with level 5 W a threat to anyone in my team no matter what her role is...
Rewind.

Fruit flies like bananas.


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Skullhp

Member

07-21-2012

If no one has think on this zyra have more than 4 abilities because 3 of them have 2 different functions


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Jordanoceros

Member

07-21-2012

Any chance we get a voidling next morello? they seem to be the smallest race currently.


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Jordanoceros

Member

07-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MareksGregs View Post
What the f?
It's just another champion, why all these posts?
is it because it's Morello's champ?
morello is lead champ designer. he makes almost all of the new champs or has a big say in them. why all these posts? it's a forum. it's what you do on them. why would you waste the time to post "why all these posts?" anyway?