Twitch - Need Confirmation on Expunge

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rehk

Member

07-20-2012

Okay, so....

I'm a twitch main player and I've been dealing with the changes (like them or not).
There is one thing I would like 100% confirmation on if anyone is sure and can site a source.

Expunge before did Magic damage, had a 1 to 1 ratio with AP, and was the only means (but a really good means, of varying Twitch's damage between AD and AP.

Before, Twitch could build to be either AD, AP, or Both. (which was FANTASTIC, because it gave you options for builds, and helped so he was not so easily countered.

Expunge now

Questions I have that need 100% confirmation and would be great if you could site a source.

1. I've been told Expunge is now Physical dmg, NOT magic damage like before. Confirm?

2. Since Expunge is AD dmg, does it benefit from Armor Pen? (I assume it would but would like confirm)

3. Expunge now scales at a .2 and .25 ratio for AD and AP (Per stack) Meaning at 6 stacks it gets 1 and 1.25 rations for AD and AP (confirm?)

4. Whats the point of it scaling off of AP now? (Why would we even bother with items with AP since the ability itself deals physical)

One problem I see if this information is correct is that now Twitch does absolutely 100% AD dmg ONLY (besides the truedamage from his passive) This is going to make countering twitch easier and gives less options for builds.

Please help! thanks


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

3mptylord

Senior Member

07-20-2012

1) Correct.
2) Correct. All physical damage benefits from armor pen.
3) Correct.
4) There are many reasons why AD champions have odd AP scalings. The primary reason is for any AP you might have from items such as: Sheen/Trinity Force, Rageblade, allied Will of the Ancients, 40 AP from Baron, 40 AP from Elixir of Brilliance (late game quadra-potting). AP scalings on AD champions are usually quite high to compensate for the fact that you won't get much (Ashe has 100% on her ultimate, I believe).

The whole AP-physical damage and AD-magical damage is pointless to get worked up about. Some believe that Katarina should do physical damage. Until recently, Miss Fortune's ultimate did magic damage and that late game it actually reduced her damage per second. When Yorick was released, all his abilities did magical damage and scaled with AD. Often "falls off late game" is because of magic-dealing AD champions. Xin Zhao's ultimate now deals physical damage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Erronius

Senior Member

07-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehk View Post
Okay, so....

I'm a twitch main player and I've been dealing with the changes (like them or not).
There is one thing I would like 100% confirmation on if anyone is sure and can site a source.

Expunge before did Magic damage, had a 1 to 1 ratio with AP, and was the only means (but a really good means, of varying Twitch's damage between AD and AP.

Before, Twitch could build to be either AD, AP, or Both. (which was FANTASTIC, because it gave you options for builds, and helped so he was not so easily countered.

Expunge now

Questions I have that need 100% confirmation and would be great if you could site a source.

1. I've been told Expunge is now Physical dmg, NOT magic damage like before. Confirm?

2. Since Expunge is AD dmg, does it benefit from Armor Pen? (I assume it would but would like confirm)

3. Expunge now scales at a .2 and .25 ratio for AD and AP (Per stack) Meaning at 6 stacks it gets 1 and 1.25 rations for AD and AP (confirm?)

4. Whats the point of it scaling off of AP now? (Why would we even bother with items with AP since the ability itself deals physical)

One problem I see if this information is correct is that now Twitch does absolutely 100% AD dmg ONLY (besides the truedamage from his passive) This is going to make countering twitch easier and gives less options for builds.

Please help! thanks

All of that is correct.

The only point would be to build a guinsoo's on him -it gives a large sum of stats for the gold you pay.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Autocthon

Senior Member

07-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehk View Post
Okay, so....

I'm a twitch main player and I've been dealing with the changes (like them or not).
There is one thing I would like 100% confirmation on if anyone is sure and can site a source.

Expunge before did Magic damage, had a 1 to 1 ratio with AP, and was the only means (but a really good means, of varying Twitch's damage between AD and AP.

Before, Twitch could build to be either AD, AP, or Both. (which was FANTASTIC, because it gave you options for builds, and helped so he was not so easily countered.
If you were building AP on twitc you were doing it very very wrong. Aside form that..

Quote:
Expunge now

Questions I have that need 100% confirmation and would be great if you could site a source.

1. I've been told Expunge is now Physical dmg, NOT magic damage like before. Confirm?
The damage type is clearly stated in the tooltip.

Quote:
2. Since Expunge is AD dmg, does it benefit from Armor Pen? (I assume it would but would like confirm)
It is't "AD damage" it's physical damage. Stop mixing your terms, AD is a stat not a damage type. All physical damage is affected by APen.

Quote:
3. Expunge now scales at a .2 and .25 ratio for AD and AP (Per stack) Meaning at 6 stacks it gets 1 and 1.25 rations for AD and AP (confirm?)
At .2 AP and .25 bAD 6 stacks is 1.2 and 1.5 ratios respectively.

Quote:
4. Whats the point of it scaling off of AP now? (Why would we even bother with items with AP since the ability itself deals physical)
Gunbade. Rageblade. Getting an off-class AP item just because AP items are good defensive items overall (Zhonya's wouldn't actually be bad as a throwaway defensive item). And once again... Why would you be building AP on twitch regardless of whether it's before or after patch.

Quote:
One problem I see if this information is correct is that now Twitch does absolutely 100% AD dmg ONLY (besides the truedamage from his passive) This is going to make countering twitch easier and gives less options for builds.

Please help! thanks
... They set him up as an efficient (though not top tier) carry. Most carries (barring a couple magic damage on hit effects or utility spells) do physical damage. After this patch Expunge is likely to do *more* damage in more situations because there is no feasible setup in which the enemy doesn't NEED to build at least a couple MR items. He's no easier or harder to counter than he was before the patch.

Hint: Many enemies hit about 150 MR (that's the "sweet spot" for MR itemization), getting 150 armor against a LW wielding twitch requires nearly 300 BASE armor (that's two item slots devoted solely to armor on all but the tankiest champs) and twitch scales BETTER against higher Armor targets now than he did against higher MR targets pre patch (because if you were building MPen you were *once again* DOING IT WRONG). You no longer need to waste itemization.

This is the same trap logic that had people up in arms about the tryn rework converting his spin to physical. In all practical terms your enemies will ALWAYS have less effective armor than MR.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rehk

Member

07-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocthon View Post
If you were building AP on twitc you were doing it very very wrong. Aside form that..
That is your opinion.

I was just trying to say that it WAS an option, and it COULD work. Now, those options no longer exist.

The way twitch was before gave him unbelievable flexibility in builds. Now....not so much.

AP Twitch before was awesome, because you could build him for Cooldown reduction, and AP, and his mana and mana regen where hardly problems past level 3 or so.

Then you could do lots of cool stuff, spam his snare, spam expunge, spam ult.

Expunge with a 1 to 1 ap ratio and magic dmg was awesome as well, because with the right items you could EASILY get the nuke to do over 1000 dmg at 6 stacks. That with his ultimate and low cooldowns made for AWESOME burst. Which now, the only way to get is going lots of AD and Penetration...(Which was an option before too)

The big complaint I have atm, is that this rework has severely reduced Twitch's viable build options, and made countering Twitch much easier.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Autocthon

Senior Member

07-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehk View Post
That is your opinion.

I was just trying to say that it WAS an option, and it COULD work. Now, those options no longer exist.

The way twitch was before gave him unbelievable flexibility in builds. Now....not so much.

AP Twitch before was awesome, because you could build him for Cooldown reduction, and AP, and his mana and mana regen where hardly problems past level 3 or so.

Then you could do lots of cool stuff, spam his snare, spam expunge, spam ult.

Expunge with a 1 to 1 ap ratio and magic dmg was awesome as well, because with the right items you could EASILY get the nuke to do over 1000 dmg at 6 stacks. That with his ultimate and low cooldowns made for AWESOME burst. Which now, the only way to get is going lots of AD and Penetration...(Which was an option before too)

The big complaint I have atm, is that this rework has severely reduced Twitch's viable build options, and made countering Twitch much easier.
AP twitch has never been a "viable" build. 1 good AP ratio does NOT make an AP build viable.

AP twitch was (always) an utter piece of ****. If you think otherwise YOU SHOULDN'T BE GIVING FEEDBACK, because you don't understand what viability actually is. Saying AP twitch was viable is like saying AP Ashe is viable, or AP yorick. Just because you can do it at 600 Elo (in your first 5 games, because it would never work against anyone with actual experience) doesn't make it "viable".