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Various Item Ideas/Discussion

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Senior Member


I was originally going to post this in a thread that Xypherous was talking about in general chat but it became quite lengthy and I believe should actually be posted here at this point to hopefully acquire appropriate feedback and attention. Here is a link to the original post to which I decided to respond, where Xypherous explains that he believes lack of good itemization for certain situations is a bigger problem than champion balance in the current meta.


Working on it... This is basically my major focus at the moment. Players don't have enough choices in game to be expressive in-game and pre-game to actually make strong decisions. The most influential choice a player has right now is champion selection - because everything else is a tad stifling at the moment.

As a side note, this is actually what I believe needs to be done first before we talk about player adaptation to environment - because there's just not enough a player can do in game through itemization to adapt to what he sees on the opposing side.

This is definitely the biggest thing that I think needs to be worked on; itemization holes.

Currently there aren't any good options for certain items; for example, armor and AD combined. Your options are: Madred's Razor, Madred's Bloodrazor, Wriggle's Lantern, or Atma's Impaler. For example, let's say a Talon needs armor. Of these items, Razor/Bloodrazor/Wriggle's are not good selections because he's not an autoattack based champion like a ranged AD would be, and even they shun this item because of its inherent weakness of being a magic damage item built on a character using armor penetration or only proccing on minions. Atma's is a somewhat weak choice as well, because crit is a relatively weak stat for him as an AD caster, and he generally won't have the HP to make good use of the passive.

For a champion like this, he's better off just buying a purely defensive item like Guardian Angel 9 times out of 10. The same applies to a lot of champions (Pantheon, Talon, and Renekton especially) who need to be able to survive as an AD in melee range but aren't necessarily used for their autoattacking. We heard rumors of an AD caster item a while back but haven't really seen it come into play yet, although Maw of Malmortius looked good at first but unfortunately requires a good amount of health to be able to make use of its passive (although it turned out to be an absolutely amazing item for other champions like Olaf and Riven).

For champions like this, more items of the Sheen/Trinity Force type effect might give some build diversity. For example, an item that procs on spell use that gives your next hit a DoT, or an item that gives you an armor/MR bonus upon using a spell. Pantheon jumps in with his stun and has slightly increased armor and magic resist for a few seconds? Yes please. Make these exclusive with the Sheen/Triforce/Lichbane procs and encourage these champions to build appropriately for their situations.

Another option would be to make Tiamat apply its' splash damage effect on single target physical abilities, and make the passive unique. For example, Talon uses his Q or Pantheon uses his Q. 50% splash damage in the current small Tiamat splash range makes them a slightly larger threat in team fights, gives them an additional option to build, and also provides potential uses for an item that is almost entirely neglected (outside of the occasional Shyvana/Fiora uses). This would specifically only work on physical damage abilities to prevent this from being abused by burst casters (for example, we wouldn't want Brand stunning an entire team with a well placed Conflagration and Sear) while giving other champions who could still use some love (Garen, Gangplank) in the current game another viable option for abilities like Decisive Strike and Parrrley.

Other things could use some work too; for example, all Tenacity items that aren't Mercury's Treads. All three of them are supremely underwhelming and just aren't worth buying when compared to the other luxury items a player might want versus just getting Merc Treads over the normal boots. While they may be slightly more cost effective than the items they're replacing, they're just not effective item choices.

Cloak and Dagger (compared to Phantom Dancer): 35% attack speed, 10% crit, 12% move speed lost vs 25% attack speed

Moonflair Spellblade (compared to Abyssal Scepter): 20 AP, 57 Magic Resist, 20 Magic Resist reduction aura lost vs 20 Magic Penetration

Eleisa's Miracle (compared to Shurelya's Reverie): 5 hp5, 330 health, 15% cooldown reduction, team run speed buff [This item actually gains 5 mp5 over Shurelya's] vs various different boot effects as support choices vary greatly, but most commonly 5 speed running while out of combat or 15% cooldown reduction.

As you can see from just these items, the secondary items (Phantom Dancer, Abyssal Scepter, and Shurelya's Reverie) all actually give the exact stat that the player trades off on their boots for the other tenacity items (increased attack speed over boots loss on PD, equal MR reduction [arguably superior] on AS, and the same amount of CDR on Shurelya's).

There's also a few items that could desperately use extra upgrade paths. Avarice Blade, for example, has a single upgrade path. All 3 other GP10 items have 2 upgrade paths now (with Lucky Pick and Heart of Gold recently receiving changes to make this true through Locket of the Iron Solari and Morello's Evil Tome) while Avarice Blade has only one path, item Youmuu's Ghostblade. [Philosopher's Stone will have 2 solid upgrade paths if Eleisa's Miracle gets a solid upgrade/fix] An upgrade path combining with another single upgrade item (Stinger, for example) would be nice but combining those two would end up with the same stats as a Ghostblade. Maybe give us the armor equivalent to a Wit's End through this item? AS/CDR/Crit/Armor stacking buff would be a nice item for a lot of champions.

A late game upgrade to Aegis of the Legion would be nice as well. This is a great item for early game, but the stats for the team are weak late game and selling it off for a Guardian Angel nets you much larger defensive stats at the slight cost of some health. Giving it an upgrade path that perhaps grants a percentage of max HP (for example a mapwide 5% HP buff) would be a new item that would be exciting for supports and tanks, but depending on the power it could just become another mandatory buy while we're trying to diversify item builds. Any HP buff would have to be mapwide to prevent potential abuse (for example, Karthus is ulting? Teleport to that lane and bump up their max HP to keep them alive) but it would be an interesting new item.

A full AD upgrade to Bilgewater Cutlass would be nice, because the active for a slow helps some champions (For example, say Olaf wants a guaranteed way to chase a target outside of his skillshot) but a Gunblade is almost worthless to him.

Any thoughts? Comments?

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Senior Member


You... You summed up 90% of my complaints about items for me. The only thing I don't agree about is the upgrade to Aegis of the Legion- It's an amazing item already and it gives stats to your whole team, good lategame as well as midgame.

Last three things I would add is the need for an upgrade to Haunting Guise and Executioner's Calling, and a lifesteal/AS item for carries- imagine building vayne or varus or, maybe, kogmawwith an AS focus (Cleaver, Phantom Dancer, AS/Lifesteal) to proc more W's in exchange for less crit and AD. An upgrade for Executioner's Calling could also make a crit-focused build (IE, PD, EXC Upgrade) for someone like Gangplank or Draven.

I agree with OP, though.

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Senior Member


Actually, Zeke's Herald is an attack speed/lifesteal item. It also has health and cooldown reduction, and the Lifesteal/AS is an aura that assists your team as well!

But Haunting Guise could use an upgrade. I said this in another thread, but a hybrid penetration item combining Haunting Guise and Brutalizer would be a very nice item as well.