How do you play Fizz versus ranged champions?

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MaxChaotic

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Senior Member

07-16-2012

Hi everyone! Sorry for the mini wall-of-text. TLDR at bottom.

I played Fizz a LOT back when he was free a few weeks ago, and decided to buy him recently. While playing him, I realize that I often have games that feel unsatisfying, particularly because I'm not able to reach my 'full strength' so to speak.

Any ranged champion (usually ones like Lux, Vladimir, or Karthus) can easily pick away at Fizz, even with autoattacks (or Q on Karthus' part). You can't keep using Playful/Trickster because it's got a long cooldown and high mana cost and you need to save it for getting away from ganks, combos, or occasionally a potential killshot.

So whenever I play Fizz, I get stuck missing a lot of CS and often trading badly in the dance of damage. I know it's very possible to beat ranged mids as Fizz, but usually it's thanks to a strong team carrying you, a lot of ganks to mid on your jungle's part (effectively feeding you), or a very squishy (or countered-by-Fizz) champion going mid.

What's most annoying is how, to make up for being poked so much, you have to use your Q (and maybe activate W) to hop in and poke them, and sometimes use your E to get out quickly. This burns a LOT of mana and you still often take some damage because Fizz's relatively short range abilities (excluding Ult.) mean that the opponent can get an ability off on you and maybe more as you get in close, and if you don't use your E to get out, you take a lot of minion hits and possibly some auto-attacks or abilities from the enemy champ.

I'd rather not tower hug, getting poked at and missing CS, but until Fizz's range is increased a little, and/or he gets some sort of healing mechanic (perhaps 5/10/15/20/25% lifesteal/spellvamp when he activates his W?), I and many other Fizz players will be having trouble versus almost any ranged AP mid. I could be dead wrong of course, and might just be missing something obvious, not committing enough, playing TOO aggressively, etc. etc. etc. I'm a noob, I'd like help!

TL;DR - I have trouble versus ranged AP as Fizz, I get poked, trade badly, and miss CS unless my team is good at ganking. I want Fizz to have a little bigger range and/or some healing mechanic. I also want to know how to play fizz versus ranged AP mids. Thanks!


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Valrcrist

Senior Member

07-16-2012

You probably aren't being aggressive enough. Fizz W + Q is a LOT of harass for one hit, and his passive means he takes less damage from minions, particularly since I've seen most Fizz players take defensive masteries that reduce minion damage taken by an additional 3, meaning that at level 4, you should be taking almost no damage from melee minions, and about half damage from caster minions. This means that unless the enemy wave is much larger than yours, you should win every trade.

One of the other amazing things about fizz, is that his W applies grievous wounds, which means that early game when trading harass with the enemy, if you see them pot, you can W + Q to make them lose 25 healing from each pot, which is more significant than it seems early game. It basically means that if both of you start with boots + 3 pots, you have an extra half a health pot over them.

All in all, Fizz isn't the best mid lane, and he IS weak 1-5, mostly due to mana issues, but he is still completely viable.


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Aikimiller

Senior Member

07-17-2012

Fizz is countered pretty hard by lane opponents with strong, spammable, long range harass.

The best way to deal with it is to avoid it completely- don't pick Fizz in draft mode unless you know you'll be able to beat your opponent in lane.

If you're playing blind and get stuck with a bad lane, the best thing to do is let them push, and bide your time until the jungler ganks- because you're not going to win the lane on your own unless you've got a pretty big skill advantage on your opponent (aka- he's bad). Once he ganks, ask him to help you push the lane, and then start roaming and ganking other lanes- if you're going to lose your lane anyway, you may as well help somewhere else and get yourself fed and your team fed. Try to keep mid pushed up if you can, but if it costs you the tower at least try to make it worth it.

Pick the fights you can win. Laning against Cass? You're not going to win that fight. But that Ashe at half health down in both lane is another story. Part of the tradeoff with Fizz is that he's a weak laner, but a very, very strong ganker- so play the game to your strengths, not your weakness.


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MaxChaotic

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07-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aikimiller View Post
Fizz is countered pretty hard by lane opponents with strong, spammable, long range harass.

The best way to deal with it is to avoid it completely- don't pick Fizz in draft mode unless you know you'll be able to beat your opponent in lane.

If you're playing blind and get stuck with a bad lane, the best thing to do is let them push, and bide your time until the jungler ganks- because you're not going to win the lane on your own unless you've got a pretty big skill advantage on your opponent (aka- he's bad). Once he ganks, ask him to help you push the lane, and then start roaming and ganking other lanes- if you're going to lose your lane anyway, you may as well help somewhere else and get yourself fed and your team fed. Try to keep mid pushed up if you can, but if it costs you the tower at least try to make it worth it.

Pick the fights you can win. Laning against Cass? You're not going to win that fight. But that Ashe at half health down in both lane is another story. Part of the tradeoff with Fizz is that he's a weak laner, but a very, very strong ganker- so play the game to your strengths, not your weakness.
Well he can't jungle very well since he's got a weak early game, and since he can't mid well, it seems he should be a roamer, but that's not really a smart position to play, because it leaves one lane in pain, or causes you to lack a jungle. So either I need to be on TSM to win vs a ranged AP mid (like Ahri, for instance, she's the other mid I play) or Fizz needs a buff to make his laning stronger. Not like he's a phenomenal ganker or anything. IMO people like yi, noc, cho, trundle, etc. etc. make better ganks due to a. their CC or b. their better early game stats.


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Styra

Senior Member

07-17-2012

As a fizz player myself, I understand what you're talking about.
The only way to survive in lane is to be dominant. Just level E W Q at level 3, and don't be afraid to go smack them with your W Q combo. You'll be surprised how much a Q and an auto attack or two can do to a level 3 karthus/lux. Save your E for escapes.
Once you hit level 6, you should be able to just ult combo them to death.
Just don't be afraid to poke back. And remember that your E can dodge their skills on the way out.


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Aikimiller

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxChaotic View Post
Well he can't jungle very well since he's got a weak early game, and since he can't mid well, it seems he should be a roamer, but that's not really a smart position to play, because it leaves one lane in pain, or causes you to lack a jungle. So either I need to be on TSM to win vs a ranged AP mid (like Ahri, for instance, she's the other mid I play) or Fizz needs a buff to make his laning stronger. Not like he's a phenomenal ganker or anything. IMO people like yi, noc, cho, trundle, etc. etc. make better ganks due to a. their CC or b. their better early game stats.
I don't mean play him as a roamer. I mean play him mid, have your jungler gank and either kill or force your opposing mid lane to recall. Once you've done that have your jungler help you push the minions to the tower, then both you and the jungler leave mid lane, and either go gank another lane or complete a map objective (dragon, steal an opponents buff, etc).

When I say Fizz should be roaming and ganking, I mean you should be very, very active at looking for opportunities to gank in other lanes, and not be afraid about leaving your own lane and missing a bit of farm. Fizz is a **** farmer during the laning phase anyway.

As far as being on TSM- if you mean that you need more personal skill, as well as a team capable of more advanced tactics to play Fizz effectively, then this is true. Fizz is a difficult champion to play effectively, requiring a lot of practice, and a lot of knowledge about when to play passively, and when to try and dominate your opponent.

But if you're saying Fizz is a bad ganker, then you're doing something wrong with him. He has a gap closer which slows (his E), along with his Ult which also slows. He has INSANE burst damage. Come out of the bush, land on the opponent with your E, hit W and autoattack, when they flash away re-engage with Q and your R. If you pinged before-hand and your teammates have done any damage at all, you should get the kill.