[Suggestion] Regarding On-hit effect items

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GrimoireM

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Senior Member

07-16-2012

I'm a pretty big fan of them, but at the moment anything but Wits End is considered a terrible or niche pick at best, and taking more than one of them is suboptimal. I was wondering if we could help improve these items by adding a new form of scaling to them, and make it clearer what's going on by tying them both into a new statistic.

Here's the basic idea I came up with:

Enhancement
- Enhancement grants a champion's basic attacks and certain abilities bonus magic damage. This bonus damage is not multiplied by critical strikes, nor does it interact with lifesteal, structures, or spell vamp. Some Enhancement items also grant a bonus based on a percentage of your Enhancement, and are added together before multiplying your Enhancement total.


Introducing this statistic into the game forces a few tweaks on currently existing items. For example, Malady, Madred's Bloodrazor, and the aforementioned Wit's End might look something like this:

Malady:
+25 Ability Power +20 Enhancement +40% Attack Speed
Unique Passive: Basic attacks increase Enhancement by 5% for 6 seconds, stacking up to 4 times.

Madred's Bloodrazor:
+25 Armor +40 Attack Damage +25% Enhancement +40% Attack Speed
Unique Passive: Basic attacks gain additional Enhancement equal to 3% of the target's Maximum Health. Minimum 50 against all targets, maximum 120 against monsters.

Wit's End:
+30 Magic Resistance +40% Attack Speed +30 Enhancement +30% Enhancement
Unique Passive: Attacks grant 5 bonus Magic Resistance for 5 seconds, stacks up to 4 times.

Ionic Spark would also be in a weird spot, but I think it would be alright to tweak it so that every 4th attack deals a fraction of Enhancement damage to 3 additional targets.

The only item this doesn't accommodate is Tiamat, which has it's purpose, underused though it may be. I do feel Percentage Enhancement should have a cap of +75~100% normally, but Sword of Divine could be re-introduced to raise it further, in keeping with it's former self.

Sword of Divine:
Recipe:
Dagger + Recurve Bow
+60% Attack Speed +10 Enhancement
Unique Passive: Every fourth attack deals double Enhancement damage.
Unique Active: You cleanse and become immune to Attack Speed slows for 8 seconds. 60 Second cooldown.

That actually would be rather interesting, if risky to employ. Better to leave it to the professional designers to play around with.

Edit: Boosted Bloodrazor's damage and changed all instances of Artifice to Enhancement. The word suits the concept better. Re-did the definition to see if that helped at all. This is based how on-hit effects interact with the game currently. If I need to list a formula to explain it, you guys should really read up how ability power stacks up, it's the exact same calculation.

Edit 2: Returned Bloodrazor's former passive, adjusted to scale with Percentage Enhancement. Would like to know what people would consider a reasonable cap, and if Sword of Divine needs some buffing/retooling.


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Autocthon

Senior Member

07-17-2012

Conceptually ok. But it's a terrible stat (rquiring a guide to have anby idea how it works, I'm looking at the post and I'm still trying to figure it out)

Oh and you're effectively turning MBR into a flat damage item. Making it worthless (and it's barely decent now, been running it on Kog my last few games just to cheese some free wins though)


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Pitufito Dell

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Senior Member

07-17-2012

Good concept, but bad idea the existance of flat and % stat. Only one is enough, two are... extrange.
The bad thing whit that is, you will get stuck on using current On Hit items if they also grant Artifice... the idea is diversify builds


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

07-17-2012

So basically, change the name of the magic damage of on-hit items and have their effects ONLY be based around increasing that magic damage instead of leaving MBR as %HP and Malady as MR Shred...


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GrimoireM

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Senior Member

07-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
So basically, change the name of the magic damage of on-hit items and have their effects ONLY be based around increasing that magic damage instead of leaving MBR as %HP and Malady as MR Shred...
At the moment Bloodrazor is often used as a bruiser item, and the %HP proc makes it only really good against bruisers stacking health. By making it a flat amount, it becomes useful as an item to kill carries with (The numbers I used make it roughly equal to the % HP proc on a 1,800 Health target, which does make it weaker. I messed up my math there :P).

As for MR shred, it's just better to get a void staff except maybe in the mid game, when the flat MR shred show's it's strength. I felt racking up the % bonus would be equivalent to the effect, but would naturally need to be slightly weaker, since you can hit whoever you want instead of having to focus one target. If you'd prefer a void staff equivalent, an item could be made to do so, but it seems largely unnecessary.

If the numbers need tweaking, that could be done easily. The main focus was trying to make it clearer what's going on, so we don't have to write "Unique Passive: Auto attacks deal X bonus magic damage." every time, and offer something with similar synergy as the typical AD carry build.

And let's face it, everyone who's a carry would love a new build to run.

I also noticed that these items, as I listed, would stack with themselves, I should probably clarify that in the statistic description. My diction isn't the best.


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Autocthon

Senior Member

07-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimoireM View Post
At the moment Bloodrazor is often used as a bruiser item, and the %HP proc makes it only really good against bruisers stacking health. By making it a flat amount, it becomes useful as an item to kill carries with (The numbers I used make it roughly equal to the % HP proc on a 1,800 Health target, which does make it weaker. I messed up my math there :P).
The strength on the %HP vs Flat is that it LETS BRUISERS FIGHT BRUISERS AND TANKS


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Fracture Eon

Senior Member

07-17-2012

So if I am reading this properly, every Enhancement item is a Rabadon's Deathcap by itself, and every Enhancement item will stack the percentage bonus with other Enhancement items, along with each one providing a flat base of magic on-hit damage. Madred's Bloodrazor becomes the core "Deathcap" Enhancement item as it provides the largest amount of persistent percentage bonus.

I like this concept of on-hit items amplifying each other. However, I still think Bloodrazor should retain its anti-HP niche. I suggest you change it so that the item has an Enhancement base damage equal to 3.5% of the target's max HP.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

07-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimoireM View Post
At the moment Bloodrazor is often used as a bruiser item, and the %HP proc makes it only really good against bruisers stacking health. By making it a flat amount, it becomes useful as an item to kill carries with (The numbers I used make it roughly equal to the % HP proc on a 1,800 Health target, which does make it weaker. I messed up my math there :P).
1510-2381 max HP on champions, not including items, runes, masteries or HP increasing spells (Feast, Nasus/Ren/Lulu ults).

So basically it's going to be weaker on everyone because, except for a few RADCs, everyone builds at least one item with HP OR has a higher base HP than 1800.


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GrimoireM

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Senior Member

07-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
1510-2381 max HP on champions, not including items, runes, masteries or HP increasing spells (Feast, Nasus/Ren/Lulu ults).

So basically it's going to be weaker on everyone because, except for a few RADCs, everyone builds at least one item with HP OR has a higher base HP than 1800.
Please note that I bumped the numbers to match the current Blood Razor proc hitting a 2500 Health target in the edit (Formerly was 70 +30% = 81, now is 80+25%=100). While in some cases tanks and bruisers can get up to 4k health, I felt it's power as a rushed item would counterbalance that late game scenario. How would people feel about a minimum damage cap?

Actually, I think I'll do just that. Edit 2 incoming.


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Fracture Eon

Senior Member

07-19-2012

I actually approve of this. It would be nice to have on-hit stacking provide a sort of cohesion where they amplify each other.

But Autocthon is right. This new system is totally incomprehensible without a rather long tooltip detailing what Enhancement is and what happens when you have more than one Enhancement item equipped. The readability of the item type needs to be a lot better, or it doesn't meet Riot's standards for item clarity.


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