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Advice for an ADC

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Bob The Average

Member

07-16-2012

I am a experienced support and tank player with an elo hovering around 1200. My girlfriend is just starting LoL. I have the greatest girlfriend ever. :-)

I have been teaching her to play with varying amounts of success and she has taken a shine to Miss Fortune. The trouble is I am a terrible ADC. I taught her the basics of last hitting and positioning. Like all new players she is never quite in the right place and she has trouble last hitting. Her income is lower than an experienced players and she tends to get caught out of position and murdered unless I can do well timed heal and disable.

For items I have been telling her to build.
Dorans Blade -> Basic Boots -> vampiric scepter -> merc treads ->BF Sword -> Phage -> Frozen Mallet -> Infinity edge

I know that most good players would say frozen mallet is a suboptimal item for MF. She needs something to keep her alive until I can heal her or beat off her attackers and it still contributes to offense.

You might notice that there are no attack speed items on here. Well she usually walks up takes one or two shots and then gets scared and backs out. I figured that if this was the case damage should count for more than speed.

What are the thoughts of some more experienced ADC players? Remember that you are giving advice to someone who is bad at last hitting and can use some help staying alive. I don't want to hear how YOU play MF. I want to hear how a beginner can play MF better.


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Boomstick II

Senior Member

07-16-2012

I think learning to play an ADC the right way (massive damage, little survivability, strategic/smart positioning) is the best way to go rather than trying to make up for inexperience by building suboptimal items to make up for said lack of experience.

Also, I'm sure she'll learn as she plays especially if you're helping her!


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Valrcrist

Senior Member

07-16-2012

She should build boots first if she's having trouble with positioning, since the move speed from boots will help her escape getting killed more than the extra hp from Doran's. Also what's her rune setup like? Most ADC's go with straight AD marks/quints to help with the last hitting; if she doesn't have those, she'll have a lot more trouble with it.

Also as mentioned above, suboptimal item builds won't help her learn how to play ADC, in fact, the build you suggested will actually HURT her, since building defensive items also hurts her ability to last hit. The standard early game build of zerker greaves/2x Doran's/vamp scepter will help her sustain and last hit more than going with defensive items first.


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SteliosV

Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Bob The Average:
I am a experienced support and tank player with an elo hovering around 1200. My girlfriend is just starting LoL. I have the greatest girlfriend ever. :-)

I have been teaching her to play with varying amounts of success and she has taken a shine to Miss Fortune. The trouble is I am a terrible ADC. I taught her the basics of last hitting and positioning. Like all new players she is never quite in the right place and she has trouble last hitting. Her income is lower than an experienced players and she tends to get caught out of position and murdered unless I can do well timed heal and disable.

For items I have been telling her to build.
Dorans Blade -> Basic Boots -> vampiric scepter -> merc treads ->BF Sword -> Phage -> Frozen Mallet -> Infinity edge

I know that most good players would say frozen mallet is a suboptimal item for MF. She needs something to keep her alive until I can heal her or beat off her attackers and it still contributes to offense.

You might notice that there are no attack speed items on here. Well she usually walks up takes one or two shots and then gets scared and backs out. I figured that if this was the case damage should count for more than speed.

What are the thoughts of some more experienced ADC players? Remember that you are giving advice to someone who is bad at last hitting and can use some help staying alive. I don't want to hear how YOU play MF. I want to hear how a beginner can play MF better.


Everything highlighted in bold relates to your issue in some way.

Build boots first and 3 pots, even if you have sustain. Especially if her positioning is bad.

The build works for some survivability but I wouldn't let her get used to that.

Take her into a custom game and let her practice CS vs you, at first make sure its with no poking/attacking her, then when she's got about 75-100 in 10 mins go ahead and start throwing harass at her.

Beating off attackers gives them a higher self esteem and can lead to a double kill bot lane.


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Bob The Average

Member

07-16-2012

The problems with positioning are also problems with indecisiveness. An experienced adc player will hover just on the edge of a battle. She runs too far away from the battle when she gets pushed out of it and takes too long to get back when the rest of the team chooses to fight. This is mostly an issue of experience.

I took your suggestion about laning in a custom game. I think it went well. We romper-stomped over our next real match. I suspect thats because the other team was really weak.


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PKHustle

Senior Member

07-17-2012

Not always, but most of the time your items as an AD carry are not going to change much.. just the order in which you get them.

Start with;

Boots + 3 pots (or Doran's Blade IF you have good sustain like Soraka.. I still like Boots + 3 for mobility)
Doran's Blade (or Boots if you started Doran's Blade)
Doran's Blade
Berserker's Greaves
Vamp Scepter
BF Sword
Zeal
Infinity Edge
Phantom Dancer
Last Whisperer/Guardian Angel/Quick-Silver Sash/Blood Thirster
Last Whisperer/Guardian Angel/Quick-Silver Sash/Blood Thirster
Last Whisperer/Guardian Angel/Quick-Silver Sash/Blood Thirster
HP/Agility/Mana Elixers

Now, I'll try to explain a bit more.

You start boots/3 pots because bottom lane is all about farming and harassing the enemy. Boots/3 will give you the movement speed and sustain to weave in and out of your opponent's auto-attack range and the potions provide sustain to allow you to trade/bully your opponent.

I usually don't go back until I can afford 2 doran's blade and zerker greaves, but if I can force my opponent back/kill them I'll push the lane and go back to keep up/pass them in items so I can zone them/bully them more when we both get back in lane.

The dorans blades will give you more hp, some damage, and a minor amount of sustain for you to continue harassing/bullying/sustaining your lane.

If you're forced back and you can't afford a BF sword then you can grab pickaxe instead. Never get the agility cloak instead of either BF or Pickaxe. It just doesn't help much compared to the other two.

Zeal is usually better on carries like Ashe/Cait (after BF sword) but on Graves for example.. you can just rush your IE and get zeal/PD afterwards. The reason it's better on Ashe/Cait is because it helps them harass/kite better.. and these are really the only two that have a high enough auto-attack range to allow for it.

Now, after IE/PD it gets a little tricky and comes down to what will help you most.

If the enemy has 2 or more people with an armor item, or chain vests on a few people and the support has Aegis, go for a Last Whisperer.

Lower elo (sub 1600 I -think-) you will NOT get Last Whisperer MOST of the time at this elo because people don't tend to build much (if any) armor. At higher elo, people are smart enough to have some armor and that's why you see them building Last Whisper after IE/PD.

In stead of Last Whisper, you have a few different options.

If you're carrying pretty hard and got your IE and PD pretty fast then it'd be wise to build a Guardian Angel so you can keep dominating. You'll now be relatively tanky and IF they manage to kill you, you'll pop back up. You should still be doing tons of damage because you're already fed and got your IE + PD really fast.

If they have a lot of CC and are smart enough to focus you with it; then grab a QSS so you can get out of their CC and kite them.

I hear it's bad to do so (I think because you have no defensive items to help if the enemy focuses you, which should happen in team fights.. unless you're EXTREMELY fed) but sometimes you can get BT after IE/PD but this item will be built starting around late mid-game and so although you're hitting hard.. it's very easy to focus you down and kill you (which is what they will do post 1200 elo) so it's generally best to wait and get this as your 5th/6th item.

Situational items are;

Second PD (not sure when this is optimal, but getting this instead of a BT is okay sometimes I think.. maybe for extreme kiting)
Madred's Bloodrazer (You'll rarely EVER want this, the entire enemy team should be really tanky and you will definitely NOT get this BEFORE you have your PD. Ever. This item is only good with attack speed)

I hear some people say Banshee's Veil is a situational item but imo.. QSS or Guardian Angel is better. If they are 4/5s or even all AP, then this would probably be better.. but you'd probably want this as well as a QSS or GA.

Remember to buy the elixers if you have completed your item build OR if you have an inhib down, or you know there's about to be a deciding team fight/baron fight!

Hope this helped!


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Shinnannigans1

Junior Member

07-17-2012

what most people usually do on an ad carry for the build is boots then first back if you havent farmed enough youll get double dorans if you have farmed enough you get a bf and a vamp scepter you dont usually want to rush blood thirster unless you know you are gonna farm well as soon as you get out there. if you cant farm well get an ie for the damage output and it makes it easier to farm then get the bloodthirster. with mf if you can avoid taking damage for a few seconds you automatically get the strut move speed. if you know you can avoid being hit early on you can try and start dorans.


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etharian

Senior Member

07-17-2012

i agree with most people. don't change out an optimal build to try and substitute lack of skill. she will learn better by playing the 'right' way instead of learning bad habits that may b hard ti shake later. positioning is tough to get down cuz there r no rules. basically only pull back enough to b outta range of u r losing a trade. of u r winning then stand ur ground. an awesome skill most people don't take into account is flashing to brush. it makes them lose u for a second and allows ur cds to come back for a second. plus u get to have the first shot before u r visible. giving u an attack advantage. won so many duels id have lost otherwise that way.

mf is okay to start with dorans because of her ms passive. but id encourage her to try out other ad carries. maybe not to main but just so she knows what they can do. the range of abilities, how targeting works. just one or two bot games is enough to do the trick. also starting dorans will help with the last hitting. higher margin of error. and i think her poke is her q. but the ricochet off that does more damage. so trying to hit a champ through a minion is great harass and allows her to stay nice and safe. i would do a standard adc build though. dorans and bersekers greaves. after that if ur doin better than ur opponent take either a bf if u have a healer in lane or vamp sceptre if u don't. if ur behind another dorans helps.

after that go straight for ie. the damage increase for her specifically is exponential. but follow up with a zeal to pd. after pd i love to build double bt. but its situational. hope this helped


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Powerstoned

Member

07-17-2012

Starting out LoL, especially if you don't hav experience in the genre, things like gold gain and hp & mana management, can be the hardest thing to get a hang of.

Items like philostone or tiamat or manamune for an adc, which experienced players know aren't the most optimal, can be a godsend for true newbies to the game. Watch her play, and tailoring items towards her deficincies instead of making her a pure glass cannon that has a harder time handling the champ can make her play a whole bunch more fun. Ninja tabis or merctreds if shes getting killed alot, berzerkers if shes just horrible at last hitting. Im sure you get the idea. I dont think dorans items are better than philos for new players, and i dont ever recommend them. I guess im different than alot of players, as i started.with a manamune usually on adcs for the first match or 2. Sometimes training wheels arent bad.


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