@Riot-Leona: Shouldn't She Be AP?

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goremote

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Support-Leona main reporting in:
I agree that she's missing something, but damage isn't it. If you want to start hitting hard with her, build a Triforce and some CDR and watch your Q damage skyrocket. Seriously, it's a bit silly how hard that hits -- never mind the fact that it stuns, too. Oh, and if it crits, it consumes the Sunlight debuff too, so there's even more damage. (EDIT, 7/17/2012: turns out the last bit about her crit and Sunlight isn't actually true, though her crit *does* cause the animation+sound of Sunlight being consumed to activate. Shame, that could've been a really cool bug. )
What I think she needs is a defensive rework on her W. Don't get me wrong, the AoE damage/debuff is amazing for farming, but it becomes **** near useless at endgame. For a maximum of six whole seconds, you can add 70 armor/MR to your current total. For those of you who don't typically run high amounts of armor or MR, stacking resistance becomes ineffective after about 220 -- the percentage reduction from 200 to 300 is ~10%, compared to ~20% from 100 to 200. This forces Leona to make a choice -- buy one armor item to make her W steroid more effective, or have multiple armor items (Randuin's+FH is my most common combination) and essentially use Eclipse for damage/debuffs? Really, no matter what she picks, her overall survivability isn't significantly changed. Now, if that shield soaked damage like Jarvan IV's, Naut's, Malph's, or healed by a certain amount per hit, like Galio's, it would be a much more useful skill. Hell, if it had a lower cooldown (to the point where it could always be kept up, provided she has the mana for it, like Kayle's E), it'd be great, though it would need a damage nerf.


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Lady Ash

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by goremote View Post
Support-Leona main reporting in:
I agree that she's missing something, but damage isn't it. If you want to start hitting hard with her, build a Triforce and some CDR and watch your Q damage skyrocket. Seriously, it's a bit silly how hard that hits -- never mind the fact that it stuns, too. Oh, and if it crits, it consumes the Sunlight debuff too, so there's even more damage.
What I think she needs is a defensive rework on her W. Don't get me wrong, the AoE damage/debuff is amazing for farming, but it becomes **** near useless at endgame. For a maximum of six whole seconds, you can add 70 armor/MR to your current total. For those of you who don't typically run high amounts of armor or MR, stacking resistance becomes ineffective after about 220 -- the percentage reduction from 200 to 300 is ~10%, compared to ~20% from 100 to 200. This forces Leona to make a choice -- buy one armor item to make her W steroid more effective, or have multiple armor items (Randuin's+FH is my most common combination) and essentially use Eclipse for damage/debuffs? Really, no matter what she picks, her overall survivability isn't significantly changed. Now, if that shield soaked damage like Jarvan IV's, Naut's, Malph's, or healed by a certain amount per hit, like Galio's, it would be a much more useful skill. Hell, if it had a lower cooldown (to the point where it could always be kept up, provided she has the mana for it, like Kayle's E), it'd be great, though it would need a damage nerf.

That friend, would be perfect! <3 Oh I'd love any of those ideas.

I usually build Leona

Ionian Boots of Ludicy
Locket of The Iron Solari
Shurelya's Reverie
Randuin's Omen
Frozen Mallet
Frozen Heart

Is this not effective? I'd love your opinion!


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bigfriendsmen

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible13matt View Post
If Leona's CC is too much for damage, then I can't imagine what you think of Nautilus.
This is why he is the 2nd most popular ban overall and she isn't in the top 10 lol


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goremote

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebonea View Post
That friend, would be perfect! <3 Oh I'd love any of those ideas.

I usually build Leona

Ionian Boots of Ludicy
Locket of The Iron Solari
Shurelya's Reverie
Randuin's Omen
Frozen Mallet
Frozen Heart

Is this not effective? I'd love your opinion!
That's a pretty good counter to an AD-heavy team. I personally haven't been sold on the Locket since it was released, as the shield is pitifully small and requires a second HoG. The Ionian Boots is overkill for CDR, though, as you're already getting 20% from Frozen Heart, 15% from Shurelya's, and 5% from Randuin's -- Merc Treads are definitely the better pick, especially against a team with a lot of CC and/or magic damage.

My typical Leona build looks something like:

Mercury's Treads
Shurelya's Reverie
Randuin's Omen
Frozen Heart (or, sometimes Thornmail if I notice a significant lack of enemy MR)
Force of Nature/ Banshee's Veil
Situational (Sunfire Cape if I *really* need the extra armor and health,sometimes a Warmog's against a high-burst team, sometimes a Trinity Force if we're doing well. I imagine a Rylai's would make her abilities pretty deadly, especially her W, though I've never really bought one).

Core build is always HoG+Philostone+Merc Treads (or maybe Ninja Tabi against an all-AD, no-CC team)


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ViperKilo

Senior Member

07-16-2012

leonas good the way she is... look at her utility-
She has an on hit stun-a skill shot snare/dash-an aoe stun/slow, and probably the best armor/MR buffs in the game. leona, even with low ratios can do a number on a target1v1, add in an ally to proc her passive and it becomes a sure kill.
as much as id love to see it, increasing her ratios would turn her into to much of a powerhouse


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Eebs

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Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by goremote View Post
Support-Leona main reporting in:
I agree that she's missing something, but damage isn't it. If you want to start hitting hard with her, build a Triforce and some CDR and watch your Q damage skyrocket. Seriously, it's a bit silly how hard that hits -- never mind the fact that it stuns, too. Oh, and if it crits, it consumes the Sunlight debuff too, so there's even more damage.
What I think she needs is a defensive rework on her W. Don't get me wrong, the AoE damage/debuff is amazing for farming, but it becomes **** near useless at endgame. For a maximum of six whole seconds, you can add 70 armor/MR to your current total. For those of you who don't typically run high amounts of armor or MR, stacking resistance becomes ineffective after about 220 -- the percentage reduction from 200 to 300 is ~10%, compared to ~20% from 100 to 200. This forces Leona to make a choice -- buy one armor item to make her W steroid more effective, or have multiple armor items (Randuin's+FH is my most common combination) and essentially use Eclipse for damage/debuffs? Really, no matter what she picks, her overall survivability isn't significantly changed. Now, if that shield soaked damage like Jarvan IV's, Naut's, Malph's, or healed by a certain amount per hit, like Galio's, it would be a much more useful skill. Hell, if it had a lower cooldown (to the point where it could always be kept up, provided she has the mana for it, like Kayle's E), it'd be great, though it would need a damage nerf.
Although I feel that Leona is extremely viable, and even a strong pick, as she is, I'll offer this suggestion:

Make Leona's W grant her 10/20/30/40/50% of her armor and magic resist as bonus health when it's activated. This way, if you're stacking armor, and have (at level 18), say around 150 armor and 100 MR. You will have 125 bonus health, not a lot. But when you activate your W, you'll have 220 armor and 170 MR, with 195 bonus health. While this may seem silly, if you treat that bonus health like a Malphite shield (it appears when you activate it and then disappears without you losing any of your actual health) then it'll make her as good of an anti carry as Malph, with a bit more thinking/timing involved.

Though let it be said: ViperKilo said it perfectly: in team fights she is already powerful enough, and extremely viable in lane. In a poke battle, she just leaps in, stuns, walks away, and her carry lays on the damage while Leona takes maybe 90 damage in return from an autoattack.


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Jav E Cakez

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Senior Member

07-16-2012

As much fun as a "Battle Leona" would be I dont see it working with her current kit without being out shined by Galio. As she stands my only complaints are her reliance on snowballing early to do well late, Eclipse having to hit in order to last full duration (Something like Sion's shield activating once for the AR/MR and hitting again to apply her passive would be interesting) and having to spread out her combo of E, Q, R, W to maximize the damage of Sunlight(Possible alternative have her passive stack and only being able to be proc'd once every second give or take).

Build and game play wise the only issue I encounter is versing extremely passive lanes or not having a partner capitalize on her offensive bullying play style early on. Using flat armor red/yellows, scaling MR blues and gold quints with 1/21/8 and even opening with a cloth armor if you feel necessary she is incredibly durable early allowing you to eat a tower hit or two early. Ill typically open Faerie charm, 3 ward+2 pot into boots 1, HoG, Philo and Aegis before branching out as necessary with Merc/Tabi, Randuin's/FH, Abyssal, shurelya's and Stark's.

As Leona is now she's viable and sees tourney play and could only use small QoL changes or slight buffs to base stats.


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Chill77

Senior Member

07-16-2012

I believe the reason Leona sees tournament play is because she's among the few viable supports. Alistar has good sustain, cc and tankiness thanks to his ult. Naut has a health shield, an aoe slow, a passive stun, a [whatever Naut hook is classified as] and an ulti that will hit the ad carry, and potentially knock up the rest of the team.

While they all seem pretty even, each with great stats and enough utility to go into the late game without farm, there are very crucial differences. Both Naut and Ali can jungle, with Naut being one of the strongest junglers in the game. This makes them much better than Leona, who is only able to play a support role. Her tank spell also isn't as good as Naut's or Ali's.


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Pitufito Dell

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Senior Member

07-16-2012

I like leona, but she feels weak after all... most time, you can't win battles. Even whit Taric, I soloed AD carries, but leona... lacks... threat.


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Keitterman

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by axesandspears View Post
Abilities normally scale off of ap, but this doesn't suggest that the champions should be ap. Leona is meant to be a tank, but she lacks the damage or quite enough threatening cc to really work that way.

Because Leona lacks the damage to solo or jungle effectively, she is relegated to a 0 cs support role, where she cannot afford the items necessary to be a strong tank. Leona needs some kind of major change to be any better.
Yeah, and to make sure people didn't explore an AP build they left her ratios as garbage, so if you buy AP, it's a complete waste.


There's been a ton of suggestions to fix this. Riot has lots of ideas, but first they have to acknowledge there is an issue, and I don't belive they have yet.