"Simple" and "Easy" aren't the same thing

First Riot Post
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Kinzo Ushiromiya

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunOfABeach View Post
It is always nice to see when devs know what they are talking about.

HoN and Dota2 are really 0 innovation.
This^


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9Point

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunOfABeach View Post
HoN and Dota2 are really 0 innovation.
I disagree...
HoN and Dota 2 have incredible innovation. You think all that "all champs in Dota are Op" comes from simple number balance? Short answer:

No.

The champions are incredibly diverse, and ones role does not define there skill set.

Raged Ad in Lol = move speed buff/dash + CC. Regardless.

The same rules don't apply in other Hon and Dota.

Also, this simplicity backs Leagues into a wall.

You think its coincidence that people say whatever newest champion released is Op?
I mean, I play both lol, and Dota and actually use both fourms. And from my experience I HAVE NEVER seen this newest/best champion played out on there forums. Let alone to the extent that it is here.

Just to finish, there are a lot of champions in Dota and hon that even the Lol Devs have said could never work in there game. While you may consider those champions unfun or Op, the fact that they are UNABLE to EVER be placed in this game only shines light on how "simplicity" curves creativity.

Because in truth, limiting your creative potential is what leads to champions only being able to be creative with dmg/resistance ratios.


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Form67

Senior Member

07-18-2012

[QUOTE=Morello;27089931]To anyone who says League of Legends is an easy game...you're ****ing high.[/QUOTE=Morello;27089931]

Best...line...ever...

Edit: WHY MUST THE QUOTE THING FAIL ME!!!! XD


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Deuterion

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Point View Post
I disagree...
HoN and Dota 2 have incredible innovation. You think all that "all champs in Dota are Op" comes from simple number balance? Short answer:

No.

The champions are incredibly diverse, and ones role does not define there skill set.

Raged Ad in Lol = move speed buff/dash + CC. Regardless.

The same rules don't apply in other Hon and Dota.

Also, this simplicity backs Leagues into a wall.

You think its coincidence that people say whatever newest champion released is Op?
I mean, I play both lol, and Dota and actually use both fourms. And from my experience I HAVE NEVER seen this newest/best champion played out on there forums. Let alone to the extent that it is here.

Just to finish, there are a lot of champions in Dota and hon that even the Lol Devs have said could never work in there game. While you may consider those champions unfun or Op, the fact that they are UNABLE to EVER be placed in this game only shines light on how "simplicity" curves creativity.

Because in truth, limiting your creative potential is what leads to champions only being able to be creative with dmg/resistance ratios.
Well said. I always thought Riot is fighting a losing battle of homogenization. It's ironic that the quote you referenced called other games uncreative when LoL is/was a string of releasing tankydps champs with a mage or ADC thrown in there(and then every 30 or so, a support).

While I have read over and over again the design viewpoints for this game, I usually come to the conclusion that League is just too "safe". Champion kits don't take risks anymore, they just do something that's already been done, but slightly different. There is merit in boldness and ambition, as these are usually the driving factors for many successful pursuits.

Now am I not saying there are no benefits to be had from such a mindset as League's avoidance of "anti-fun", but it is definitely easy to tell that it is being strictly followed even to a fault.


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serverny

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Senior Member

07-18-2012

2 different games, to each its own.

There is no such monster as "meta" in DOTA.

In LOL its "OMG ITS SOOOO COOL THEY SWAPPED LANES NEVER SAW IT COMING SO COOOOL I CAN DIE HAPPY NOW!!!".

LOL is much more stagnant due to META, in DOTA every lane setup is viable on competitive level, including duo jungle.
DOTA has no such bullcr#p as "0 cs support" - all 5 players get some farm in the end.

These are things LOL should improve on IMHO.

P.S.: mandatory "dota2 has all champions unlocked for free"

P.S. 2: in DOTA pure jungler can get farm/items comparable to sololanes, in LOL this happens only in soloQ pubstomp games. As jungler main its sad to admit its much easier to carry from jungle in DOTA.


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Opreich

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Dota is pretty clear.

You see an Enigma land a 5 man Black Hole, you know it was a good play.


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PickleChutney

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunOfABeach View Post
It is always nice to see when devs know what they are talking about.

HoN and Dota2 are really 0 innovation.
I'm sorry but the vast majority of leagues champs are pretty bland and uninspired. Just mishmash recycled kits.

I'll concede that it appears some of the new champs are showing promise, but let's just be fair there.


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Lord Zaxer

Senior Member

07-18-2012

I'm a player of LoL for over 2,5 years - I've now played Dota 2 alongside LoL for 2 months and I can honestly say that they are right. LoL IS much easier than Dota 2 and I will never become a player as good as I am in LoL in Dota 2.


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Bastilean

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Clarity is really important to me. It's easy to get confused by the graphics of LoL in the midst of a team fight. Clarity means I am targeting and releasing spells and effects correctly despite the mind boggling visual cataclysm on my screen. If people are honest, the average player will agree that sometimes there is visual confusion in some cases just due to the fast pace this game is designed for.


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Panzerfaust

Emissary of the League

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle700 View Post
I think the only thing that is completely wrong there is that football is easy to understand. ****s confusing, man.
Being 'understandable at a glance' doesn't mean '... to someone who has no idea what's going on.'

Certainly it's great if you can get that, but if you need a small subset of core rules to understand first, so be it. Some of these things are inherently understood thanks to our culture (CS: guns shoot projectiles that hurt people), but that doesn't mean they're not there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prail View Post
I'm sorry but the vast majority of leagues champs are pretty bland and uninspired. Just mishmash recycled kits.

I'll concede that it appears some of the new champs are showing promise, but let's just be fair there.
Even if this were the case, which is entirely opinion, DotA 2 and HoN take full kits straight from DotA, though HoN does mix 2-3 kits together on occasion, the abilities were all straight from DotA. At the very least LoL at least attempts to create new concepts. You're also ignoring the fact that very little is actually an original idea on its own, it's all about how you implement the idea.