Riot, be honest

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Thralon

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Senior Member

07-14-2012

This is a great question. How do you want the support role to be played?


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RoanSykes

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Senior Member

07-14-2012

Karma completely ignored I see. Karma does a fine job healing, dmging, and shielding.


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Kedali

Senior Member

07-14-2012

+1'ed because I share the frustration.

Riot keeps saying supports are still strong and hugely impact the game, yet virtually no one, and certainly none of the pros, would recommend playing support to carry out of elo hell.

How do Riot and the people that agree with them rationalize this incongruity? How can they simultaneously say that supports are just as strong and impactful as every other role, yet also say that supports can't impact a game enough to carry a bad team, whereas any of the other roles can.

There's just no logic there.



To note, yes I do think supports can carry games, but not because of the champions themselves. Supports carry by winning the vision game, warning of ganks, etc. Basically, they carry by doing things anyone could do on any champ, but only support are expected to do.


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MathMage

Senior Member

07-14-2012

They nerfed everything about supports because they wanted supports to be weaker. It's not that they want supports to focus on one thing, but that they thought supports were too good at everything.

Now, the reason WHY they want supports to be weaker can be argued about all week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoanSykes View Post
Karma completely ignored I see. Karma does a fine job healing, dmging, and shielding.
IF she has farm. 0-CS Karma is like Janna, but with half the CC and no ult. If that's where support is headed, I'm a little worried.


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Hero of Wind

Senior Member

07-14-2012

To be quite frank, they don't even know what in the **** they want from supports. The "Good" supports are top picks, so they're considered too good. According to Morello, as long as a nerfed champion continues to remain a top pick, then they will remain good. I don't understand how he doesn't see the flaw in that reasoning, but whatever. I'm not a designer that works for Riot, and to be honest, we really don't have much of an impact on the balancing of the game.

As a fellow support player, I understand completely where you're coming from, dude.


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ElBoob

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Senior Member

07-14-2012

I have completely stopped playing support(0cs) because of this. Now I only play kill lanes in bot.
It seems absurd how Riot handles support to me.


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Anemona

Senior Member

07-14-2012

yeh, its pretty frustrating.
i always get mildly angry and come out with long responses... just to delete them in the end.
its the apex of disappointment, where you just dont even express your feelings due to knowing it will be useless doing so.

it's not as fun and reliable anymore playing a support, its leaning even more and more towards a undesirable chore.
god help us if we get one of that cs the bad carry wouldnt even manage to get, or if we do something useful besides being the gold/5 ward bot of the team.
when we do something else, we get nerfed for it.


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slestria

Junior Member

07-14-2012

support is pretty much non existent now with all the new tanky dps coming out that there is almost no point in picking them anymore since all you can do is absorb damage IF they even target you instead of ignoring you since you cant do anything to them and cant heal your allys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenluvartz View Post
This is not a QQ thread. I almost never create threads and there's enough /mylife here anyway. It's a legit questioning.

I've been a support player since... well, since I started playing really. I pretty much only picked up LoL because I was told "you can play support too" and the first game I ever played was with Sona and she made me fall in love with the game. I've always found it enjoyable even if it's selfless, even if we sometimes get yelled at more than we deserve and get praised less than we deserve. I've learned to cope with that and to identify my fails and my good plays by myself, raging at myself on my own for the bad plays, and giving myself a pat on the back when I do something good.

However, patch after patch after patch, pretty much all I see is nerfs. Nerfs. And more nerfs. What is a support supposed to do?

Is it... healing? Healing is the first thing that comes to your mind when I say support, right? Well apparently, healer isn't what Riot wants us to be, because Sona's W was nerfed so much it is barely a shadow of what it was when she was released, Taric's sustain was gutted when he was remade, Ali's sustain got nerfed last patch (lolwut), and Soraka, the game's dedicated healer, keeps getting nerfed and called "toxic" by Rioters.

So it's not healing you want us to do. Oh wait!!! Is it... buffing? Is amplifying our allies' power what you want us to do? Mmhhh... Janna's shield was nerfed hard when the AD buff got tied to the dmg absorbing shield, Sona's auras were destroyed, Soraka's bonus armor on W got nerfed too... so I guess it's not what you want us to do. Fine then.

Oh right! I get it, you don't want us to be passive! You want us to be active, involved in the fight! Right, got it. From now on, we shall poke the hell out of enemies and try to zone them out of XP range! **** YEAH! What? Sona's passive nerfed? Lulu's poke nerfed? But... but we thought... we thought...

Oh, right, sorry. Supports shouldn't be doing dmg, what the hell were we thinking? It's all about disruption and utility. Ok, we'll be good now, we'll do as you say, sorry if we understood you wrong and didn't know our place. What was that? Nerfs on Janna's Q and W? Monsoon losing its slow component (yup ladies, it used to slow people who re-entered the storm, umad??), having its range decreased, and CD increased? Calling Crescendo a design mistake because AoE hard CC on a support is bad? Well ok then, I guess utility + disruption isn't what we should be doing.

Should we roam and gank, like Alistar? Oh, wait, that got nerfed too.

Okay wait. That's it, I got it, WE ARE THERE FOR VISION. That's it. Map control is our absolute duty. ALL RIGHT! From now on we shall use CV, spam wards, build gp10, an-- what, I beg your pardon? CV nerfed across the board? Gp10 nerfed so you can't stack the same item? HoG making you squishier and Philo giving less hp regen? Oh, all right then i's not the right thing to do... FINE.

So many things were nerfed on supports that I really, really wonder what is going on. Riot, be honest, be clear; what is it you want from us? What is it that you want from the support class in your game? We promise we'll do it. We promise we'll be good. Just tell us, Riot pls.

Tell us how we have to play and act so we don't get nerfed every 2 weeks.

EDIT: trying to bait out some Reds to answer me, so:

Trinity Force
Nerf Irelia
Soraka remake
Picking up the kill
Stealth rework
Tons of dmg
Parrot
Delete Teemo
Leona
Magnificent Twisted Fate
Jungle Lulu


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MathMage

Senior Member

07-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by slestria View Post
support is pretty much non existent now with all the new tanky dps coming out that there is almost no point in picking them anymore since all you can do is absorb damage IF they even target you instead of ignoring you since you cant do anything to them and cant heal your allys
This is almost entirely false. (I do agree that tanky DPS saturation is a problem, but a different one.) Supports are valuable precisely because of what they offer that a tanky DPS can't, without farm.


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Aeolian Melodies

Senior Member

07-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreakxx View Post
Sona hasnt been nerfed dude she got a bug fix and buffed, pritty much all support champs at the moment are all very vaulable champion all supports have cc effect, heal/sheilds/ stat boost/ movement boost list goes on... I play support aswell and pritty much always win (mainly kayle) just because your goal it to harrse and cs deny the enemy adc while protecting your lane and allies, or you can even solo top and iv never seen a solo top kayle/ zilian/ mid soraka/ mid sona. mid lulu ever get outlanned by basically any champ.
Do you live under a rock or something?

1) Sona has a history of nerfs that can rival even Irelia, the queen of "better-nerf-me" herself. Clicky here to see all the patch notes that affected Sona since she was released, and this isn't counting the indirect nerfs (like nerfing gp10 items, removing Innervating Locket which was her best item, etc) that she had.

2) If supports are SO valuable nerfs after nerfs, please tell me why all I ever see lately (during the last weeks) are Blitz and Leona + their carry against me + my carry bot, with the rare apparition of Alistar and Janna (and when I saw rare, I mean it, like 1/10 games).

3) You claim to play support. You're level 21 and your match history has 0 support game in it. Your rune pages are called "jungle" and "Teemo". Your masteries are called "Tank", "AP", "AD", and one page is not named - none of them seem to be made for a support. I don't mean to look like a ***** but unless this is a smurf (and if your smurf, you're bad and you should feel bad), I hardly think you know what you are talking about. Your experience in this game is lacking AND you most definitely don't look like a dedicated support player.

4) If our goal is to harass and deny the enemy of gold and XP, then WHY did Riot nerf the dmg on poke supports (Lulu and Sona mainly) to the point where it's hardly worth the risk to get in range and blow your mana, CD for that harass? The last patch that fixed Sona's buggy Q was a step in the right direction. It doesn't make up for the fact that she has been nerfed countless times, like the rest of her support comrades.

5) Solo top is where Kayle belong, just for your information. Not bot with the carry. Sona, Soraka, Lulu, Zilean, I have seen all of these champions go mid. In around 3k games, I've seen a LOT of things. Most of the times it fails because while supports ARE strong laners, they do NOT have the burst to be AP carries - sometimes they have ****ty ratios, but the biggest issue normally is that they don't have enough damage spells to have a really hurtful combo. Sona? 2 dmg spells and one of them is her ult, the other one only hits 2 targets and she can't chose it, meaning in a fight she's gonna hit the tank and the bruiser. Janna? While her scaling is impressive, she has 2 dmg spells, one of them needs to be charged to have its full dmg, and thus smart people will dodge it, and the other is short ranged and costs her her mobility. Soraka? 2 dmg spells again, one of them is pretty suicidal too unless people are stupid. Zilean? Oh it gets better, get this, ONE dmg spell (that he can cast twice in a row), that's it. Wow, that combo, we LeBlanc now amirite!