Athene's Unholy Grail

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Fugis

Senior Member

10-05-2012

I'm just a bit curious about this item. I have noticed that when high level players start with chalice on mana starved champs, they usually upgrade to athene's before grabbing high damage items like deathcap.

When I play, I normally get chalice, then feel like athene's is just going to slow down my build and make me deal too little damage. I know as a general rule you should finish off items before starting new ones, but chalice alone is usually enough to not run out of mana. I'm not understanding why its worth it to complete this item.


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DarkStarZX

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Junior Member

10-05-2012

From my experince with it, it depends on how the game goes. For the fact that it gives, Magic resist, AP, Cool down, mana regen, enhanced mana regen and restoring a chunk of mana after a kill or assist. Its gives a lot for the fact that its under 3k gold. I prefer to get it early with Swain so the bird form feels unstoppable. Thoguh then again its all on the thoguhts of palyers whether or not they get it. Considering I don't even get rabadon's deathcap on swain.


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KingAgathos

Junior Member

10-05-2012

Because 15% cooldown reduction along with 90 ability power is still a strong start. The cooldown reduction can mean a TON to some trades, getting off another ability is almost always more effective than having yours hit with 92 more ability power (Deathcap gives 182 by itself with passive).

Plus, laning phase is still going if this is your first item, so sustain becomes incredibly important when people are rarely dying like that happens in the pros.


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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

10-05-2012

All a matter of opinion.

It does solve mana problems to an even greater extent then only a CoH by itself and if you consider the 15% CDR you are in effect getting about 18% more damage from that stat alone.

You might also consider that a large piece of most abilites damage is in the base and not the extra AP.

I'll use Ahri's Q as an example

MAGIC DAMAGE: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+ 33% AP)
TRUE DAMAGE: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+ 33% AP)
if you get deathcap then you get 182 AP meaning that you get
MAGIC DAMAGE: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 + 60 200 total for level 5
TRUE DAMAGE: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 + 60

If you get Athene's then you get 90 AP and 15% cdr
MAGIC DAMAGE: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 + 30 170 total for level 5
TRUE DAMAGE: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 + 30
170 / .85 = 200 at level 5
The .85 is for the CDR

So you have roughly the same damage output for both items but athene's provides 40 MR, and lots of mana.

This would change if you were using say LeBlanc who has much higher AP ratios on say her Q but Athene's isn't a bad item to get first.

It might be best described as putting all the eggs in on basket when you rush deathcap. If you land all of your abilities you do more damage but if you miss sometimes then Athene's will be a better option having slightly less damage but more opportunities to use said damage.


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MeltedWater

Senior Member

10-05-2012

In a fight, you don't always get to use the attack twice, regardless of CDR. But sometimes the CDR lets you attack twice, instead of once. Essentially, you get twice the damage or no additional damage. Your way of looking at it is completely off.

What I do is get the Rabadon's first if I can afford it, but if I'm not making much gold and it comes slow then I'll get cheaper items to slowly build up the AUG.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

10-05-2012

The AUG is terrific for truly mana hungry champions. With a CoH, you can still run yourself out of mana if you are spamming but it is genuine HARD to run out with an AUG.


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Pethrax

Senior Member

10-05-2012

I love AUG. CoH is beautiful, don't get me wrong, but let's assume you are playing AP Nidalee, a terror with her spear. Now, the problem you face with AP Nidalee is that she gets oom remarkably fast if she is popping off her spear every chance she can, which she should be doing. With a CoH, once I get oom, it takes only a short while to get back in the fight, but I'm still not at full mana, whereas with an AUG I not only get full in just a few seconds with my masteries and runes, but I also have bonus power and defense that makes it that much easier to win a trade-off in mid against almost any enemy as long as I initiate.

Rabadon's is a beautiful item, but rushing it is the wrong idea. This item is meant as a late game, BOOMSTICK! not a early game item when you are laning. Sure, it will help you zone out the enemy, but that also gives you a huge weakness- you are completely open to ganks without wards, and if you do get ganked, you will most likely be oom, something no caster wants to be.