Remove elo loss from surrender

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Selcopa

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swooshter View Post
How will my side have less surrenders? It only takes 4 to surrender, not 5. Even if I chose not to surrender, the other 4 can still override that, leaving me with 0 choice and an elo loss. You say in other threads to carry the game. How can I carry the game if the other 4 chose to surrender?
Yes you should carry them, by the time 20 minutes is up you should have some kills and cleared some objectives and have said 10 times "Guys im huge, we got this, let me get into a team fight first"

See this is what happens when someone decided to defend their point even when they're wrong, they refuse to even think about the possibilities.

If every player in the game has an equal likelyhood to incorrectly surrender too early, and YOU never will incorrectly surrender, that means the enemy team has 5 players who can incorrectly surrender, and you only have 4, your team has to have ALL 4 players make a mistake, where as the enemy team only needs 4 of the 5 players to make a mistake, run out the surrender combinations.

Your team has only 1 combination of votes to get a surrender vote, the enemy team has SIX combinations to get a surrender vote, which means the enemy team will make the error of surrendering more often than your team will.


Quote:
Because MMA is a team sport.... /rollseyes. Convincing them you can still win is great, if it wasnt for the fact that most surrender votes take less than 20 seconds. Not much time for you to convince them.
You have to give them a reason to think they are still in it BEFORE the surrender button pops up, if you have a chance to say "we still have this" during the vote, that's excellent, otherwise you should be convincing them that you still have a chance well before a surrender is considered

Quote:
End of story, surrendering has no place in ranked solo que. If you do not want to play to the end of the game, it is not the game for you. That is like saying I want to be a professional football player, but never wanting to finish or go to practice. Even if you still lose, you still have a chance of learning a thing or two. It is about practice and conditioning. If you give up half way through most of the games, you will never do well. In fact, I am pretty certain you said something similar in another thread on the topic of surrendering a while back
You are talking about 2 different things, if you want to make a case for no surrendering in MLG or IPL or something, then you can bring in professional team sports. But there's no money in solo queue, this is not a professional environment, its a pick up game, its rated yes, but so are normals.

Do i advocate never surrendering and giving the enemy an opportunity to lose? Absolutely, I just had a game where i was the deciding vote and we were quite down and i opted not to surrender, we came back and won.

Does the fact that I advocate never surrendering mean I want surrendering to be removed from ranked solo queue? Not at all, I want the ability to surrender when a game is hopeless, and i want my enemies to be able to make the mistake of surrendering when it is not hopeless.


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BigTallUgly

Senior Member

07-16-2012

I agree that something needs to be done about this. It is simply unacceptable, and I myself have been in games where I am doing just fine, have picked up a few kills, have my gold per fives as warwick jungle, while the rest of my team is feeding and doing god knows what.

I always like to play games out to full duration, I like to see where things go wrong, and I always want a chance to try and draw the game out a bit longer to improve my build to maybe clinche a last-minute win after a team fight.

And then the four kids on my team surrender because they've decided they arn't being carried hard enough. Which is frustrating enough by itself, but when on top of that I suffer and elo loss that does not, in fact, reflect my skill ability in any way, its like being doubly penetrated by riot's huge ****.

So yeah, big bump for this suggestion.


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Swooshter

Senior Member

07-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
Does the fact that I advocate never surrendering mean I want surrendering to be removed from ranked solo queue? Not at all, I want the ability to surrender when a game is hopeless, and i want my enemies to be able to make the mistake of surrendering when it is not hopeless.
That right there proves my point. You clearly see yourself, that surrendering early is a mistake that has no reflection on the skill of an individual. Basically, you are given a free win, without needing to prove yourself the rest of the game. Would you have still won? Probably. Should the enemy player that is playing well be penalized for his team deciding to quit? No, I dont think so.

For the record, 20 mins in, I do normally have my lane dominated (unless I get hard countered) and the turret down, but some people dont grasp the concept that it is not kills and deaths that win the game, but towers down that do


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BigTallUgly

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Yes, it seems that the surrender is not coming from your teammates as a frank assessment of whether there remains the potential to win the game, but rather more of a spineless, hopeless, and sad lack of desire to play when you are not curb-stomping the enemy. These surrenders represent a lack of willingness to put forth actual effort into attempting to set up kills, chasing, dilligently guarding buffs and monsters, etc.

These people, that surrender, they want an easy win, or surrender. And when I am not only forced to team with them in a competitive environment, but also forced to share an elo loss because they are not really interested in playing the game, I get a little ticked off.


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BigTallUgly

Senior Member

08-02-2012

bamp


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SURROUNDSOUND

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Senior Member

08-02-2012

Get better.


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dramignophyte

Junior Member

08-02-2012

Just play Lee Sin: the blind monk. When your team tries to surrender, say no, the game ends when you want it to because you are Lee Sin: the blind monk.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

08-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swooshter View Post
That right there proves my point. You clearly see yourself, that surrendering early is a mistake that has no reflection on the skill of an individual. Basically, you are given a free win, without needing to prove yourself the rest of the game. Would you have still won? Probably. Should the enemy player that is playing well be penalized for his team deciding to quit? No, I dont think so.

For the record, 20 mins in, I do normally have my lane dominated (unless I get hard countered) and the turret down, but some people dont grasp the concept that it is not kills and deaths that win the game, but towers down that do
Actually I'm saying the opposite, the decision to surrender is a reflection of your skill, it shows you have an understanding(or don't) of what your team is capable of doing as well as the enemy team, I'm a lot more likely to surrender a game down 1-7 with a leblanc and pantheon than I am a karthus kog maw and maybe the enemy team has shaco

Because there are quite a few things to consider before surrendering, I generally advocate always voting no, because low elo players(as in the person I'm telling this to)are more likely to make the mistake of surrendering too often, coupple this with the fact that voting yes too much is more harmful than voting no too much, its much safer to tell bad players to always vote no, than to try to teach them when to surrender.

None of this however, advocates the idea of outright banning the ability to surrender, in fact the ability to surrender further separates me from lower skilled players, because in that field, I will make less mistakes than my opponents, as a result I will gain more elo than other players.

Finally, you are more than willing to prove me wrong, and I will publicly retract and apologize for my statements if you do prove me wrong, but if you were dominating your lane as much as you suggest you do, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because you would never had posted this, because people just wouldn't be surrendering enough for tbhis to be worthy of a forum post, like I said, please prove me wrong by sending me mul,tiple games from your plethora of domnating performances that are foiled by your team surrendering. But I simply don't believe you are doing that great


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Teddybearcakesxp

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Member

08-03-2012

Good luck with that, Mr.Unranked


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Frosty96

Member

08-06-2012

This might be the worst idea ive ever heard................

Your team only surrenders because everyone knows the game is lost. you dont surrender when u can still win.


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